Transparent Trailer View -- Not for Fifth Wheel

[Hclarkx]

I upgraded to a 2020 GMC and paid the big bucks for the trailer rear camera (about $500 + tx from dealer parts department). Then found out it's not wireless and is for 32' or shorter bumper hitch trailers only. Big disappointment; sales people and Chevy/GMC web sites did not mention any of this.

Undaunted, I did install the camera on my 30' 8280WS Ultra Lite and it is working but the install was a pain and leaves a lot to be desired.

The biggest issue is that the camera cord plugs into a socket that is just above the 7 pin socket on the rear bumper. There is no camera socket in the bed. This means the camera cord must drape over the tailgate as it runs down to the socket on the bumper. To keep that wire from damaging the tailgate as it flops around in the wind, I put foam rings around it and tape it to the tailgate with painters masking tape.

As for the transparent trailer view, I have no clue why that's useful. But, having a good camera on the back of the 5er is handy even with DW back there guiding me as I back into a tight space. And to keep an eye on tailgaters.

The salesman put me in touch with a GMC engineer and he explained that they went hard-wire because even the newer digital wireless cameras are slow and don't work well beyond about 20 feet. I had to agree with that, having fought with a high-end digital rearview camera for four years. I would have asked him about fifth wheels but didn't learn of that issue until later.

Anybody else go through this?

[Theo]

Originally Posted by Hclarkx

{snip}...he explained that they went hard-wire because even the newer digital wireless cameras are slow and don't work well beyond about 20 feet...{snip}

Not sure this is exactly correct.

We are using a Haloview MC7108 HD wireless camera on the back of our 29' Roo 23ikss. The monitor is on our F-150's dash. Total distance between the camera's antenna and the monitor's antenna is about 40'. The image is rock solid and impressive in clarity.

Perhaps the engineer was trying to cover for an accountant's decision.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by Theo

Not sure this is exactly correct.

We are using a Haloview MC7108 HD wireless camera on the back of our 29' Roo 23ikss. The monitor is on our F-150's dash. Total distance between the camera's antenna and the monitor's antenna is about 40'. The image is rock solid and impressive in clarity.

Perhaps the engineer was trying to cover for an accountant's decision.

I would think that 55 feet of cable (coax inside of a closed loom cover) and a very expensive weatherproof connector would cost much more than wireless. Wireless stuff is now dirt cheap.

I will say that in my case the camera was at the top rear at about 9' up while the roof at the front of the 5er is 12'. That means the signal had to travel through the full length of the 5er including bulkheads and bathroom and such. My typical speed was about one frame ever 3 or 4 seconds at best, even with an outside antenna on the truck. The only thing I did not try was running coax up the roof of the trailer, to an antenna closer to the front. Coax is lossy at higher frequencies so I didn't think I would gain much even with a 7 dbi gain antenna. The digital camera system was one of RearViewSafety's early digital units from about four years ago. Newer ones probably fare better.

While I bemoan having to run the cable, it does work well. Resolution is amazing and flare is minimal. And having the image in the factory 8" screen in the dash avoids a lot of clutter. But, I wish GM had been upfront with the limitations. I might have spent the $500 on a newer digital system.


PS: The 20' the engineer mentioned was trailer length. I think he also said "don't work reliably" not "don't work well." I.e., wireless success can vary from install to install. I can believe that.

[sdelam]

I have a 20 gmc 2500 I use to pull a work and play bumber pull so the connection location wasn't an issue for me. I mounted mine on the roof line and ran the cable down the roof to the front. I have had issues calibrating the invisable trailer mode and was told that the camera needs to be at the same height as the tailgate camera to work properly.

When the invisable trailer worked it provided a clear view of the hitch, the trailer outline, and the surrounding traffic. The problem for me was that it would loose the calibration during a fuel stop and I did not have enough straight line, under 30 mph road to re calibrate before getting back on the highway.

I have seen on another forum (duramax maybe?) Where someone swapped the in bed and bumper trailer connectors. It did require splicing the coax cables because there isn't enough harness length to just reroute them (huge oversight in my opinion).

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by sdelam

I have a 20 gmc 2500 I use to pull a work and play bumber pull so the connection location wasn't an issue for me. I mounted mine on the roof line and ran the cable down the roof to the front. I have had issues calibrating the invisable trailer mode and was told that the camera needs to be at the same height as the tailgate camera to work properly.

When the invisable trailer worked it provided a clear view of the hitch, the trailer outline, and the surrounding traffic. The problem for me was that it would loose the calibration during a fuel stop and I did not have enough straight line, under 30 mph road to re calibrate before getting back on the highway.

I have seen on another forum (duramax maybe?) Where someone swapped the in bed and bumper trailer connectors. It did require splicing the coax cables because there isn't enough harness length to just reroute them (huge oversight in my opinion).

Thanks hugely for the information. Very helpful.

Interesting that the camera should be at tailgate camera height. All the ads and such show it higher. Mine is about half way between tailgate camera and the roof and works okay I guess. I can lower it. Maybe I'll develop a taste for transparent trailer view.

I looked at swapping the in-bed and bumper connectors. There's quite a mass of wire under there but yes, the camera coax lines are only about 8" to the big harness. The connector modules do look like a swap may work without cutting any metal. My first thought was to get matching connectors and make a patch cord that would slip through the 1/4" opening between the bed and tailgate (the factory camera cable won't). The connectors are probably out there but I did not find them in a quick search.

Extending the coax lines and swapping the connector modules is sounding more enticing as I think about it. Thanks again for the help.

[EdJunior]

The connection sounds like they copied the Ford design. I don't know if the Chevy/GMC has a dual connector (4/7 or 12/7 for the camera), but I would have to believe there would be a kit to move it to the bed. I know one can be had for the Fords.

I always wondered at the utility of the "invisible" trailer. Maybe, maybe not. But it sounds like they still have some bugs to work out.

[sdelam]

Would not be surprising if a kit is available at some point. I think we are suffering from early adapter syndrome at the moment. They put the trucks out advertising cool tech before they released all the equipment to make it work.

[wolfe4656]

What I did for my 2016 Sliverado 2500HD was ordered a unit called Intellihaul by echomaster. It is designed to integrate with Chevy, GMC. It is a wireless camera plus the two mirror cameras. My camera will work wireless to the back of my 40' trailer. The rear camera just needs power from the running lights. A module goes into the dash behind the 8" display and two cameras mount on the the trailering mirrors. It is great and is just like using my rear mirror. Cost around $800.



check this link.
https://echomaster.com/categories/intellihaul/

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by sdelam

Would not be surprising if a kit is available at some point. I think we are suffering from early adapter syndrome at the moment. They put the trucks out advertising cool tech before they released all the equipment to make it work.

This sounds quite plausible. I hope it happens. This might apply also to the new trailer TPMS option. This is a $50 option on new gm pickups that lets the DIC/Infotainment Center monitor (temperature and pressure) on up to six tires on up to five different trailers. I figured that $50 got you four TPMS sensors. But, this turns out to not be the case. One apparently can't just add sensors. Something else is required, probably a receiver under the back bumper and maybe a DIC firmware upgrade.

My truck came off of a dealers lot and had lots of nice options but not this one. And, according to the Chevy/GMC web sites and my dealer, it's only available if ordered with the truck. No dealer installation option.

$50 seems like too good of a price for four GM TPMS sensors let alone a receiver module under the rear bumper and maybe some DIC firmware.

I talked to my dealer's parts dept and was told that they knew nothing, but that, as you suggest, it often takes months or a year before dealer-installed options reach the dealer. So I still have hope, but I was very disappointed that I missed that $50 option up front (it won't be $50 at the dealer assuming it eventually does show up there!)

[Mikolow]

I hear you. We recently bought a 2019 F-350 dually with all the cameras, etc. and quickly found that most do not work with a fifth wheel. Also, as soon as I hook up, the blind spot indicator system shuts down. Could have saved a bunch of option money if I had known this.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by Mikolow

I hear you. We recently bought a 2019 F-350 dually with all the cameras, etc. and quickly found that most do not work with a fifth wheel. Also, as soon as I hook up, the blind spot indicator system shuts down. Could have saved a bunch of option money if I had known this.

Heh, they must think that no blind spot indication is better than one that does not reach the back of the trailer. Though with decent mirrors, a car behind the blind spot (that might get hit by the trailer) is probably visible. I sure hope mind keeps working. I'll be doing a test run in a few days and will check it.

[ItsThe2ofUs]

Interesting reading here as I am just now fixing to install the “Invisible Trailer” camera, etc on my 2022 GMC 1500 At4. It came with the proper software and plug receptical for it all to work.
I just spent a morning talking to a couple Techs at the local GMC dealer to determine the the work arounds to installing the camera system on the trailer; herein lies the Problem:

First off - the instructions are VERY explicit; the camera MUST be dead center (+or- 200mm) on the back wall; 200 mm higher then the tailgate camera; camera angled 35 deg down relative to the vertical wall. That’s all well and good; the basic problem to be overcome as that , apparently the GM engineers never thought it would be used on a trailer that has both interior ands exterior walls; the instructions have you drill a 6mm hole in the back exterior wall and use the provided 6mm / 3/4 bolts and NUTs to attach the bracket to the exterior wall, apparently drilling through the shower or the back of the med cabinet or the sink cabinet, etc. Additionally, the instructions require the installer to place the adhesive zip tie brackets (for securing the cable to the trailer from back wall to coupler) at intervals of 8 inches or less; that’s fine as the 2 vertical runs plus the length of the trailer is about 30 feet will require 60 or so of the fasteners - good thing they included 24 in the kit.
It is very apparent the design engineers ONLY considered small utility box trailers when putting this together.

Oh well, the work arounds that we came up with should work fine and I will report back as to my experience with it

Just a short note on the TPMS display on the DIC. According to the Tech guys this is NOT and likely not ever to be backwards upgradable if the computer did not come with it.

Roger

[Hclarkx]

Roger,

After a lot of consternation and worry and internet searches and questions to the local GMC dealer (which were not helpful) I finally determined where I stood with a truck that the dealer had ordered without the trailer TPMS option. I was mostly told that I could not have trailer TPMS in the truck's display because the option was not included at the factory. It turned out that the $50 option only added the four sensors; everything else was in place to have trailer TPMS with or without the trailer TPMS option. I saw no indication of this possibility in the infotainment system setup ..... until I bought and installed four sensors.

Love the system. I would like to know if the system is supposed to scream at me when a trailer tire is losing pressure like it does for a truck tire pressure drop. On the one trailer flat I've had, I saw the low pressure after the system connected to the sensors one morning 1/4 mile from the campground, but there was no big warning.

The above is for a 2020 GMC Dinali. Some models may not be ready for trailer TPMS by just adding sensors.

I agree, the transparent trailer view thing is not very functional on a fifth wheel. It sort of works, but I don't use it. With the transparent trailer, it's hard to tell how far back the tail gator is. With the rear camera alone filling the screen, it's a better and more useful view of what's back there, especially after understanding the distortion caused by the wide angle camera. The camera on the rear of the fifth wheel is my rear view camera. The only improvement I want is to have the view from that rear camera in my rear view mirror instead of the console display. I do like the camera-based rearview mirror (when the trailer is not in tow).

I would also like to always have the oblique views brought up by the turn signal, not just when I have a trailer in tow.

[ItsThe2ofUs]

“It turned out that the $50 option only added the four sensors; everything else was in place to have trailer TPMS with or without the trailer TPMS option. I saw no indication of this possibility in the infotainment system setup ..... until I bought and installed four sensors.”

This is interesting ; I wonder if it is a Denali thing or one of those things that just happen in production sometimes ??
The AT4 is a trim level half way between SLT and Denali. Mine did not come with the 50$ sensor pack so assumption is it is not part of the system; but , it could be one of those things that would be too expensive to to make 2 versions of ( one with and one w/o) and keep track on the assembly line ?? I wonder ???
Rog

[ItsThe2ofUs]

Just a quick question; how were the TT pressures displayed ? On the TV tire pressure display or as a separate screen. Obviously , the Denali must have had the rcvr on board from the git go.

[sdelam]

The TPMS sensors is behind the rear license plate, easy to see if you have the module by removing the plate. The trailer sensors are set up through the trailer set up page. They will show pressure and temperature. If a tire becomes low you will get a pop up in the speedometer/DIC screen.

The invisible trailer thing is neat but not a must have. Mine is set up per the instructions but still seems to have interment calibration errors. Camera still works, but invisible trailer doesn't when it happens until i do the calibration (straight line under 30mph) which can be hard when its lost during a fuel stop.

[sdelam]

lol, just realized this is an old thread that I already responded to.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by ItsThe2ofUs

“It turned out that the $50 option only added the four sensors; everything else was in place to have trailer TPMS with or without the trailer TPMS option. I saw no indication of this possibility in the infotainment system setup ..... until I bought and installed four sensors.”

This is interesting ; I wonder if it is a Denali thing or one of those things that just happen in production sometimes ??
The AT4 is a trim level half way between SLT and Denali. Mine did not come with the 50$ sensor pack so assumption is it is not part of the system; but , it could be one of those things that would be too expensive to to make 2 versions of ( one with and one w/o) and keep track on the assembly line ?? I wonder ???
Rog

Could be a trim level thing. But I realized later that if there was a good bit of hardware (rear bumper receiver) and software and four sensors in the trailer TPMS option, the price would more likely be $250 and not $50. So the price being $50 on any trim level suggests that the goods are there and the $50 covers the sensors only.

I could not tell if I had a harness for the receiver and never found an image of the receiver to tell me what the sensor looked like. I don't recall taking the license plate off, though I think on the Dinali there is not a hole behind it.

The sensors at the dealer are way more than $50. I think I got mine on ebay for about $60. You have to get the right ones, 433 MHz IIRC.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by ItsThe2ofUs

Just a quick question; how were the TT pressures displayed ? On the TV tire pressure display or as a separate screen. Obviously , the Denali must have had the rcvr on board from the git go.

The only trailer TPMS display that I've seen is in the 8" console display, not the DIC. Maybe it will appear in the DIC (like a truck tire flat) if one has a flat on the road. The one trailer flat I had didn't show up there but may have been a special case since the tire was low when I hooked up and left the camp site and I had only gone 1/8 mile before seeing the low pressure in the console display when the DW checked tire pressure as she does every time we pull out. Maybe given more time low pressure alarm would have shown up. I sure hope there is an alarm because the TPMS isn't worth much without it. You do have to drill down into the trailer app a few steps to see the top few of the trailer and the four pressures and temperatures. It covers the right half of the screen.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by sdelam

The TPMS sensors is behind the rear license plate, easy to see if you have the module by removing the plate. The trailer sensors are set up through the trailer set up page. They will show pressure and temperature. If a tire becomes low you will get a pop up in the speedometer/DIC screen.

The invisible trailer thing is neat but not a must have. Mine is set up per the instructions but still seems to have interment calibration errors. Camera still works, but invisible trailer doesn't when it happens until i do the calibration (straight line under 30mph) which can be hard when its lost during a fuel stop.

Have you seen a DIC pop-up on a trailer tire low pressure? Or seen information that it is there? As I noted, in my one experience I didn't see it.