Trucking Shopping

[asquared]

Originally Posted by waynenichols

This is for the folks that have the F-450 what is the MPG running empty? I have heard from others that said its the same with a load as without. One guy said he at best he has gotten 15MPG empty.

That mileage is better than my 09 F250 w/ 6.4 PSD. I only get about 13-14 mpg daily bit I do get 10-11 towing. I would bet the fuel mileage on the New 450 isn't much worse than that.

[Phil57]

MPG with the DEF will be better.

[Horns07]

If you are still looking look at Vernon ford. They have a lifetime powertrain warranty on all their vehicles. And have awesome prices new and used.

[Lynkage]

Originally Posted by waynenichols

This is for the folks that have the F-450 what is the MPG running empty? I have heard from others that said its the same with a load as without. One guy said he at best he has gotten 15MPG empty.

I get between 14+ -20 city hwy.

I do get 11+ towing my 14K 355bhq loaded for camping going west over the I70 passes to Moab.

[EdJunior]

Originally Posted by Phil57

MPG with the DEF will be better.

The DEF has no effect on the mileage. It is used after the Regeneration process to burn more particulates before final exhaust. The regen process is what kills the mileage. But remember, it only does it for approximately 10 miles or 10 minutes (on average). So the overall affect on mileage is not near as bad as some people make it out to be.

[mhuffs9017]

Originally Posted by Joe_GA

I can't speak for the 450's, but my 350 rides amazingly smooth. Almost as smooth as my '09 F-150 rode.

What he said. Still can't get over how nice this bad boy rides. I was expecting a teeth shattering experience but to my surprise it rides like a land yacht.

[jnamadison]

The wife and I are also looking at moving up. Currently a 6.0 250. Moving up to a Dually is a given. 350/450, 6.4 vs 6.7 are the decisions.

For 08-10, there are several big differences from the 350-450. Bigger tires, bigger brakes, beefier frame, wider from axle which allows a 5' shorter turning radius, and of course a much higher tow capacity.

For 11+, the difference is a lot smaller between the two. I still think the brakes apply, but the frame is the same, wheels are now the 17" standard vs the 19.5 of the 6.4 450's and the towing capacity is down to only 3k difference (21k vs 24k)

For the cost, a used 08-10 450 would be my personal choice, but insurance/financing/registration can be an issue with the 450 (YMMV) I currently have USAA and they won't insure an F450. My credit union won't finance it either. They view it as commercial.

If you are looking for peace of mind with your 5'er and future rigs you may purchase, a 6.7 350 Dually would probably serve your needs just fine for a long time if you can afford it.

Along with everyone else that has mentioned they loved their, my father has a '12 350 Dually with all the upgrades. Certainly makes my 6.0 feel like a brick.

[Len & Cheri]

If you can swing the extra dough I'd get the 6.7. If nothing else just for the better MPG.

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by EdJunior

The DEF has no effect on the mileage. It is used after the Regeneration process to burn more particulates before final exhaust. The regen process is what kills the mileage. But remember, it only does it for approximately 10 miles or 10 minutes (on average). So the overall affect on mileage is not near as bad as some people make it out to be.

The regeneration process rarely is needed and has little or no impact on MPG. The 6.7 ISB would not be capable of 360hp and 800 lbs of torque with out the DEF system. The ability to increase HP and improve MPG is because the smog control is done in the exhaust system and takes the load off the engine. There is a huge benefit to DEF and although I hate filling the tank I love that I can get up to 13 mpg with a 40' DP. I also love the fact that the air coming out of the exhaust is as clean or cleaner than what went in. I hate the smell of diesel and with DEF there is no smell.

[jnamadison]

Originally Posted by Phil57

The regeneration process rarely is needed and has little or no impact on MPG. The 6.7 ISB would not be capable of 360hp and 800 lbs of torque with out the DEF system. The ability to increase HP and improve MPG is because the smog control is done in the exhaust system and takes the load off the engine. There is a huge benefit to DEF and although I hate filling the tank I love that I can get up to 13 mpg with a 40' DP. I also love the fact that the air coming out of the exhaust is as clean or cleaner than what went in. I hate the smell of diesel and with DEF there is no smell.

That's a blanket statement for a wide range of potential situations.

Regen can absolutely affect your MPG, if you are towing heavy loads constantly. The more soot your engine puts out, the more it regens. If you drive unloaded most of the time, then no, you probably won't regen that often.

The 6.7s addition of DEF helped the mileage and reduces the frequency of the regen process, but the regen itself still affects mileage. You are injecting fuel into your exhaust, how can it not?

As with all things, the overall effect just depends on your application.

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by jnamadison

That's a blanket statement for a wide range of potential situations.

Regen can absolutely affect your MPG, if you are towing heavy loads constantly. The more soot your engine puts out, the more it regens. If you drive unloaded most of the time, then no, you probably won't regen that often.

The 6.7s addition of DEF helped the mileage and reduces the frequency of the regen process, but the regen itself still affects mileage. You are injecting fuel into your exhaust, how can it not?

As with all things, the overall effect just depends on your application.

I totally agree but I believe that regen is caused more my dogging your motor running to little RPM and idling to long. I have never had a regen and I am pulling at least 27000-33000. I only comment to defend DEF as I don't believe that it is a bad thing as most do. I was told when MH shopping to find one that was pre DEF. I glad I didn't listen.

[jnamadison]

I agree with you about DEF. I think that it's very useful and helps with the mandated EPA emissions. Unless you are going that much older to fin one without a DPF. But most people want newer, so they may as well just learn to live with it.

As for the regen, I would guess it's different in your MH than the SDs. I've seen heavy loads require regens every 100-200 miles. According to a couple power stroke boards I'm on that seems to be a norm.

[BarryD0706]

I hate to spoil the "training wheel" party, but for that weight of RV (and a lot more), you don't need a dually. I asked about this before I bought my Chevy 3500 and was told by an experienced RV'r that:
1) People have trouble running those extended fenders into things.
2) Duallys get stuck easier (each tire has half the payload as a SRW so lower traction).
3) Higher cost to buy and higher cost to replace all those tires!

Think about it.

[ironj]

I find it hard to believe that ANY dpf equipped vehicle can go more than a few hundred miles without a regen...that filter captures all the soot (black smoke), and motorhome or not, its making it....now if it signals like mine you may have never even caught it, as mine flashes a warning for like 3 seconds before a regen...a "passive" regen occurs at high egt, but even then a standard regen would only be delayed an extra hundred miles or so.....

as far as the whole dpf/def issue, it is the reason you can buy a 400hp/800tq stock pickup off the lot.....personally I would not even use my truck as a daily driver if I didn't have it....I like the whole quite, no soot, no smell thing......

also, mine IS TUNED for performance, and the dpf/def/egr are all intact..my tuner allows me to delete these things, but simple fact of the matter is I don't feel I need more than 500hp/900tq (where im at now) ....

[Lynkage]

Originally Posted by BarryD0706

I hate to spoil the "training wheel" party, but for that weight of RV (and a lot more), you don't need a dually. I asked about this before I bought my Chevy 3500 and was told by an experienced RV'r that:
1) People have trouble running those extended fenders into things.
2) Duallys get stuck easier (each tire has half the payload as a SRW so lower traction).
3) Higher cost to buy and higher cost to replace all those tires!

Think about it.

You would probably think different in a high wind situation. Also takes longer to wear out tires when there are 4 back there.

People just need to be more aware of their surroundings.

[jnamadison]

Originally Posted by BarryD0706

I hate to spoil the "training wheel" party, but for that weight of RV (and a lot more), you don't need a dually. I asked about this before I bought my Chevy 3500 and was told by an experienced RV'r that:
1) People have trouble running those extended fenders into things.
2) Duallys get stuck easier (each tire has half the payload as a SRW so lower traction).
3) Higher cost to buy and higher cost to replace all those tires!

Think about it.

The problem is that it's almost never about the total weight. Even a 250 would handle that. It's about the Pin Weight. For the 2012 350 DRW it's about 2700 lbs. With his 12k 5er, at a middle ground 15% estimate, that's just over 1800 lbs. 900 lbs for 35gal of fuel, people, animals, hitch, and stuff.

Can you do it? Yes. And if its preferred, either by the OP or his DW, then go for it.

Me personally, I'm going to get something that allows me to not have to do the numbers. Not to mention if the DW ever wants to go bigger.

More tires cost more. No doubt about it. Dually's can get stuck easier. True. But what kind of terrain are you taking 60' into? Again, in my personal experience, most of the campgrounds we frequent are paved or packed gravel. Or I'm on the roads. I'm not trying to offroad in my DRW truck. The fender issue is just someone not paying attention to the vehicle they are driving.

It's different for everyone and you need to fit the vehicle to your specific application.

[ironj]

Originally Posted by BarryD0706

I hate to spoil the "training wheel" party, but for that weight of RV (and a lot more), you don't need a dually. I asked about this before I bought my Chevy 3500 and was told by an experienced RV'r that:
1) People have trouble running those extended fenders into things.
2) Duallys get stuck easier (each tire has half the payload as a SRW so lower traction).
3) Higher cost to buy and higher cost to replace all those tires!

Think about it.

I dunno.....the op is already talking about a 12.3k trailer......assuming the pin weight is about 20% that's about 2500lbs of payload cap just for the trailer...throw in passengers, cargo etc, and that number is probably closer to 3000lb payload..... and that is easily more than most newer f250s and most f350 swr...or at least right at max....

heck, he is probably "technically" either maxed out or over with the 250 he has now!...so definantly he cant handle "a lot more".

your points about duallys I agree with except the getting stuck thing....sure the axle weight is spread across 4 tires, but with a dually you have 2x the frictional area for grip...so same weight as if you had 2 tires, but now you have 2x the traction capacity...even moreso in mud, and sand, because of the flotation factor/surface area thing....

[LKicklight]

Recently delivered a brand new 3500HD Silverado Duramax Deisel 4x4 Dually up to Franklin, NC. What a surprise and a treat driving this wonderful new truck. We have owne a 2500HD 6.0 Gas for years and have been pretty satisfied, that was until I drove the 3500...Drove 160 miles, barely used a quarter tank of gas..at 65 mph, tach was riding around 1500 rpm..our gas truck pulls around 2000 rpm..that alone means better gas mileage....This was a black exterior with Tan Leather...Ext. Cab., Bose....list was around 52K..which I thought was a pretty good deal considering...We also sell Ford trucks and have driven those along with the GMC...The GMC will give you better resale value down the road...and is as dependable as the Chevy..give them a try..think you will be very pleased..
LKicklight
Dallas, GA

[BarryD0706]

Originally Posted by ironj

... that number is probably closer to 3000lb payload..... and that is easily more than most newer f250s and most f350 swr...or at least right at max....

I don't know about Fords, but on Chevy, a 3500 SRW has a payload of nearly 4000, while the DRW is nearly 5000.

[ironj]

depends on what numbers your looking at.....a base model f350 in the right config has well over 4200lb payload....but unless your buying a base model reg cab 350 then its a moot point....and the reality is, pretty much NONE of us are buying those tucks.LOL...take a fully loaded f350 with a couple of passengers to the scale and see how much of the gvwr is REALLY left......its usually about 1000lb or more less than MAX advertised payload...

for instance, my 250 with a gvwr of 10k has a LISTED payload of nearly 3300lbs......as delivered, it weighed 7885...so 2115 of actual payload.....not even enough to cover the trailer he has now....my buddies with chevys and dodges find pretty much the same thing.....listed, and REAL WORLD are two different things