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Old 04-06-2013, 02:18 AM   #21
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This is for the folks that have the F-450 what is the MPG running empty? I have heard from others that said its the same with a load as without. One guy said he at best he has gotten 15MPG empty.

That mileage is better than my 09 F250 w/ 6.4 PSD. I only get about 13-14 mpg daily bit I do get 10-11 towing. I would bet the fuel mileage on the New 450 isn't much worse than that.
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:22 AM   #22
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MPG with the DEF will be better.
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:24 PM   #23
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If you are still looking look at Vernon ford. They have a lifetime powertrain warranty on all their vehicles. And have awesome prices new and used.
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:47 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by waynenichols View Post
This is for the folks that have the F-450 what is the MPG running empty? I have heard from others that said its the same with a load as without. One guy said he at best he has gotten 15MPG empty.

I get between 14+ -20 city hwy.

I do get 11+ towing my 14K 355bhq loaded for camping going west over the I70 passes to Moab.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:23 AM   #25
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MPG with the DEF will be better.
The DEF has no effect on the mileage. It is used after the Regeneration process to burn more particulates before final exhaust. The regen process is what kills the mileage. But remember, it only does it for approximately 10 miles or 10 minutes (on average). So the overall affect on mileage is not near as bad as some people make it out to be.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:29 AM   #26
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I can't speak for the 450's, but my 350 rides amazingly smooth. Almost as smooth as my '09 F-150 rode.
What he said. Still can't get over how nice this bad boy rides. I was expecting a teeth shattering experience but to my surprise it rides like a land yacht.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:09 PM   #27
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The wife and I are also looking at moving up. Currently a 6.0 250. Moving up to a Dually is a given. 350/450, 6.4 vs 6.7 are the decisions.

For 08-10, there are several big differences from the 350-450. Bigger tires, bigger brakes, beefier frame, wider from axle which allows a 5' shorter turning radius, and of course a much higher tow capacity.

For 11+, the difference is a lot smaller between the two. I still think the brakes apply, but the frame is the same, wheels are now the 17" standard vs the 19.5 of the 6.4 450's and the towing capacity is down to only 3k difference (21k vs 24k)

For the cost, a used 08-10 450 would be my personal choice, but insurance/financing/registration can be an issue with the 450 (YMMV) I currently have USAA and they won't insure an F450. My credit union won't finance it either. They view it as commercial.

If you are looking for peace of mind with your 5'er and future rigs you may purchase, a 6.7 350 Dually would probably serve your needs just fine for a long time if you can afford it.

Along with everyone else that has mentioned they loved their, my father has a '12 350 Dually with all the upgrades. Certainly makes my 6.0 feel like a brick.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:18 PM   #28
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If you can swing the extra dough I'd get the 6.7. If nothing else just for the better MPG.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:59 PM   #29
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The DEF has no effect on the mileage. It is used after the Regeneration process to burn more particulates before final exhaust. The regen process is what kills the mileage. But remember, it only does it for approximately 10 miles or 10 minutes (on average). So the overall affect on mileage is not near as bad as some people make it out to be.
The regeneration process rarely is needed and has little or no impact on MPG. The 6.7 ISB would not be capable of 360hp and 800 lbs of torque with out the DEF system. The ability to increase HP and improve MPG is because the smog control is done in the exhaust system and takes the load off the engine. There is a huge benefit to DEF and although I hate filling the tank I love that I can get up to 13 mpg with a 40' DP. I also love the fact that the air coming out of the exhaust is as clean or cleaner than what went in. I hate the smell of diesel and with DEF there is no smell.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:21 PM   #30
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The regeneration process rarely is needed and has little or no impact on MPG. The 6.7 ISB would not be capable of 360hp and 800 lbs of torque with out the DEF system. The ability to increase HP and improve MPG is because the smog control is done in the exhaust system and takes the load off the engine. There is a huge benefit to DEF and although I hate filling the tank I love that I can get up to 13 mpg with a 40' DP. I also love the fact that the air coming out of the exhaust is as clean or cleaner than what went in. I hate the smell of diesel and with DEF there is no smell.
That's a blanket statement for a wide range of potential situations.

Regen can absolutely affect your MPG, if you are towing heavy loads constantly. The more soot your engine puts out, the more it regens. If you drive unloaded most of the time, then no, you probably won't regen that often.

The 6.7s addition of DEF helped the mileage and reduces the frequency of the regen process, but the regen itself still affects mileage. You are injecting fuel into your exhaust, how can it not?

As with all things, the overall effect just depends on your application.
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