Unique towing question about 2500 model suburban

[Dave_Monica]

Originally Posted by jabres

How can it even be possible my 2003 Chevrolet Tahoe 1500 4x4 3.73 towing capacity be all the way at #7400 when this 2500 suburban is ONLY 7600? Going from a 1500 to a 2500 with a 6.0 versus a 5.3 and I can only tow #200 more pounds?
This makes no sense again....

It's all about being able to get the towed weight moving up to speed...the factors being the weight of the vehicle, weight of the trailer, engine power in terms of torque and mechanical gearing (rear end ratio and trans gearing).

From the numbers I've seen, the torque of the 6.0 vs 5.3 is only 20 - 30 ft/lb depending on the year, the 2500 Suburban will weigh considerably more, the gearing is the same and therefore, the max towing isn't all that different than the Tahoe.

A 2500 Suburban will work better should you find one with 4.10 gearing.

Dave

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by Dave_Monica

It's all about being able to get the towed weight moving up to speed...

And remember, when you are towing, you are not drag racing. Who cares if it takes a few seconds more to get up to speed? You are suppose to be enjoying the fact you're going camping.

[Batts-toy]

jabres - it's a good thing this thread went as long as it did, some of us old timers just learned some things right along with you. The 3.73 gears appears to be the deciding factor as a matter of point when you asked me earlier about my Tundra's tow numbers if I would have thought it through I would have realized they include 4.1 gearing with the Tundra tow package. The Tundra 1/2 ton truck with tow package is very comparable to a lot of 2500 vehicles (with 4.1) because Toyota has beefed up the metal in the gears.

I hope you find something to fill your needs, since you were shopping for another vehicle anyway you are taking the correct approach by gathering the info and getting it right before you buy. Don't stress it will all come together, enjoy the challenge then enjoy the camping.

[jabres]

yea thanks for all the info guys-
If I ended up buying this 2500 suburban 6.0 w/ 3.73's anyone know ball park cost if I ended up not being satisfied with the 3.73 and wanted to change it over to the 4.10's?
Thanks again

[prof_fate]

Are you familiar with how tow ratings are figured?
An empty truck, 150lb driver, no 'extra' options other than the max for towing.
Take truck weight, GCWR and you get tow capacity.
This means that the 7400 INCLUDES all the cargo and passengers in the truck as well as the trailer.
Add some options and that 7400 drops as the truck weighs more.

So you're likley at or over the limit on the 1500 tahoe. Running at max loads is a lot harder than running lighter - just fill a wheelbarrow to the max vs half full and go push it around the yard and you'll feel the difference first hand. Yes, you CAN push a wheel barrow full of gravel but you won't want to go far and won't be comfortable doing it.

Now the 2500, at least in trucks, gets you bigger frame, suspension, more payload. Should get the same upgrades in the suburban 2500.

Longer WB will also feel better but will make getting the WD right harder.

As for power...I have a 6300lb TT that I pulled with an older expedition (5.4 motor, 230k miles) and it could keep up with traffic, accelerate up hills. Moved to a sliverado (5.3 same gearing) and I can now rearrange the decor in the TT - off the line there is no comparison. MPG is the same. It has P tires where the expy had E tires and E is WAY better (P feels liek driving on 4 blocks of jello).

Originally Posted by jabres

Hey guys I need a little advice here. I currently own my 26' 2008 forest river wildwood tbss travel trailer weighing in at #5880 empty. Loaded down I am around #6500. I currently tow with a 2003 Chevrolet Tahoe 4x4 5.3 with 3.73 rear end and I am looking to replace it as it just does NOT have the power, and I wont take it on trips pulling the travel trailer very far.
My tow capacity on the 2003 Tahoe is#7400 pounds which is a joke cause there is no way I could safely tow that much.

SO I am really close to buying a 2005 suburban 2500 model with the 6.0 gas motor and 3.73 rear end... I am having trouble finding a "true" towing capacity for this vehicle.(the dealership does not have the owners manuel)Its really hard for me to believe where I am reading in a few places the towing capacity for this 2500 suburban is ONLY 7600 pounds when my little Tahoe 1500 model with the smaller motor is at #7400??

Anyone have some advice or experience on this? I realize a diesel would be the best for pulling but that's not in my budget right now...
Will this 2005 suburban 2500 6.0 3.73 be sufficient for pulling?
Thanks, in advance

[prof_fate]

Originally Posted by jabres

yea thanks for all the info guys-
If I ended up buying this 2500 suburban 6.0 w/ 3.73's anyone know ball park cost if I ended up not being satisfied with the 3.73 and wanted to change it over to the 4.10's?
Thanks again

$1000 I"m guessing. I changed R&P in my jeep years ago and parts then ran $300 or so. Changed the fluid in my expy and JUST the fluid ran $75 for ONE diff (synthetic plus additives for the limited slip).
Add in labor, times both diffs (assume it's 4x4?) and you may have to have the speed recalibrated.

[jabres]

cincy ed- do you remember the weight of the 32' toy hauler you and your buddies bought that was too heavy for your 150 and your buddies suburban 2500?

[jabres]

prof fate- yea I understand all the towing capacities...thanks for all the explanations though,was helpful.
The million dollar question I am debating if the 2005 suburban with 3.73's and 6.0 motor will have the power I need to tow my travel trailer #5880 empty weight and loaded probably around 6500 6800...(tow capacity 7700)
The reason I am getting a new tow vehicle in first place because my 1500 Tahoe 3.73 with 5.3 does not perform well at all trying to tow it long distances

[prof_fate]

My expy has a tow rating of 7500 lbs and my trailer - while hundreds if not 1000 under that is actually putting me at the limit.

With the specific options on my truck (owners manual!) I lose 1000lb tow rating (4x4, 17" wheels).
The GCWR is 12,500 - put the TT and the truck on there and I've got about 500lbs left to work with - I'm more than the 'ideal' 150lbs, my wife, kids, dog, and misc stuff we put in the truck no doubt is over the 600lbs. So we are exceeding the limits. I don't feel unsafe, but I can feel the load.

Enter the silverado 1500. Similar engine/power (on paper anyway) and lots more tow rating - 9600. 3.73 gears vs less than that (3.55? don't recall) on the expy. Truck weighs about the same and has 24" more WB.

I'm still at the limits - GCWR is 15,500 so we're well under that, but the trucks GVWR is such we're near maxed out with just the passengers and dog! And my kids will still grow for years to come...

Now it feels much more powerful - why? 200k fewer miles is my first guess. English top gear did some dyno tests on old cars and saw 100+ hp drops at 100k miles. So how many miles on your tahoe? On the sub2500?
Gearing? Does 3.,73 vs 3.55 make THAT big of a difference?
Does the new chevy 6spd vs fords 4spd trans make a difference?

Does that 2000lbs of 'extra' GCWR make a difference?

Tow packages - what's on each? Both of mine have the tow packages - HD cooling and whatever else they add.

I looked at suburbans/tahoes when we got the expy and from what I recall the tahoe/1500 sub is a car, the 2500 is a truck.

As for how comfortably you feel towing...that's up to you. Getting everything is set up right is the key. As I said, the 10 ply E tires on the expy feel 100 times better than the P rated 4 ply on the new truck, but I'm not quite read to go drop a grand on 4 michelins quite yet. I don't feel much if any difference with the extra WB - i thought I would.

Our first trip with the new truck was to a flat area in western ohio. Sunday we leave for the mountains, our typical camping destination. I'll have a better idea how it runs compared to the expy after that.

[SaskCampers]

I am sure you will be fine performance wise with the 6.0 and 3.73's. I tow 8500lbs with my current 6.2 and previous 5.7 hemi. Both 3/4 ton 4x4 TV's. Would more gear be better? Of course but do not under estimate the abilities of a TV with 3.73 gears either. As to the tow ratings, most vehicles are derated with 3.73's geeze my Dodge 2500 Megacab 4x4 was only rated to to 8400lbs and had a GCWR of 15k yet one wiuth 4.10's was rated at 10,400 and 17k. So I would not be concerned in the least about performance.

[OldCoot]

4.10 gears will pull better but will eat your lunch on everyday driving as far as gas mileage. You can always drop down to a lower gear if you need with the 3.73 gear.

[rockfordroo]

Whatever you do, don't take the salesman's word for what the truck is equipped with. Make him get you the options list for your VIN. Then verify that the options list shows the 3.73 or 4.10, whichever it is you want.

As someone else said, the salesmen will tell you ANYTHING to move the metal!

[MillerTime]

Professionally installed gears, materials and all will be between $700 to $1500 per axle. and I would strongly recommend having someone who does gear/axle work all the time to do it. One little thing off and you will be out thousands on everything new in a housing.

[ridersfan]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Whatever you do, don't take the salesman's word for what the truck is equipped with. Make him get you the options list for your VIN. Then verify that the options list shows the 3.73 or 4.10, whichever it is you want.

As someone else said, the salesmen will tell you ANYTHING to move the metal!

Hey now... there are dealers out there with integrity

[JCamper]

Recently upgraded my tow vehicle but was towing my 35' 6970lb (dry) Tacer with a 2007 "Hoe". Needless to say I was WAY over my limits and it didn't take me long to admit it.
One thing that I don't see mentioned here that need to be is the tranmission. A word of caution on making TV decisions to gain power, make sure that you have not only the extra power you want, but that you don't over do your trans.
My "Hoe" had the 4:10 ratio with the 5.3 V8 and airbag additions. But Chevy lacks on the trans.cooling.
Make sure before you switch to a "Burb" that your not stepping down from your existing trans cooler to something without.

Having towed with a gasser and now a diesel, I can say that there is no way I'd go back to gas. If you can budget it, I recommend switching. Also when towing my rig, my RAM does 3.5 MPG better on the fuel than the Tahoe.

[terrystevens]

I may as well throw in my 2 cents.
My trailer scales at 7500 loaded and I have an '06 GMC 1500 HD 4x4 crew cab 6l and 373 gears. The truck weight alone with a full tank is 6400lb., and has a 6 1/2 ft. box. Have towed this combo approx 20,000 mi. thus far. Have never had problems with lack of power. One could run 75mph on any interstate if it was necessary--I generally run the posted speed limit. Have never experienced any sway, using a wdh. and 1 friction sway control. Have driven in all weather conditions.

I've had various TT's and tow vehicles over the years, and this has been the easiest towing combo that I've owned.

No question that a diesel would be even better power-wise, but for a gasser the 6.0l does a more than adequate job. Significantly better than the 5.3 I had before with a lighter trailer.

[Mister]

Originally Posted by JCamper

Recently upgraded my tow vehicle but was towing my 35' 6970lb (dry) Tacer with a 2007 "Hoe". Needless to say I was WAY over my limits and it didn't take me long to admit it.
One thing that I don't see mentioned here that need to be is the tranmission. A word of caution on making TV decisions to gain power, make sure that you have not only the extra power you want, but that you don't over do your trans.
My "Hoe" had the 4:10 ratio with the 5.3 V8 and airbag additions. But Chevy lacks on the trans.cooling.
Make sure before you switch to a "Burb" that your not stepping down from your existing trans cooler to something without.

Having towed with a gasser and now a diesel, I can say that there is no way I'd go back to gas. If you can budget it, I recommend switching. Also when towing my rig, my RAM does 3.5 MPG better on the fuel than the Tahoe.

Trans is a huge concern and so are breaks. "Common Knowledge" dictates that breaks should be larger and heavier on 3/4 tons than halves but you should always check. A quick google search should be enough. Getting 13K pounds of rolling mass up to speed is one thing... Stopping it is another entirely!

[MillerTime]

Originally Posted by JCamper

Recently upgraded my tow vehicle but was towing my 35' 6970lb (dry) Tacer with a 2007 "Hoe". Needless to say I was WAY over my limits and it didn't take me long to admit it.
One thing that I don't see mentioned here that need to be is the tranmission. A word of caution on making TV decisions to gain power, make sure that you have not only the extra power you want, but that you don't over do your trans.
My "Hoe" had the 4:10 ratio with the 5.3 V8 and airbag additions. But Chevy lacks on the trans.cooling.
Make sure before you switch to a "Burb" that your not stepping down from your existing trans cooler to something without.

Having towed with a gasser and now a diesel, I can say that there is no way I'd go back to gas. If you can budget it, I recommend switching. Also when towing my rig, my RAM does 3.5 MPG better on the fuel than the Tahoe.

I believe I made mention of the transmission 2 pages ago.
-And unless you go with a 4.3 or 4.8 BASE MODEL truck or tahoe you will 9.999 times out of 10 have an auxiliary tranny cooler.

[MillerTime]

Originally Posted by Mister

Trans is a huge concern and so are breaks. "Common Knowledge" dictates that breaks should be larger and heavier on 3/4 tons than halves but you should always check. A quick google search should be enough. Getting 13K pounds of rolling mass up to speed is one thing... Stopping it is another entirely!

An easy way to find this info is to look up the brakes, u-joints and such is to look it up on a parts store website- like oreillys and such. They generally list the size or spec of the part. You will usually have to choose between several gvrw on there, so obviously the larger the gvrw the mo re likely that there is a difference in drivetrain components.
-of course if its a gm vehicle difference then I can usually find the difference between different models especially with the vin#s, or I may even know right off the top of my head

[Frankm2]

The 3/4 should give you a much more stable feel while towing.