WDH increasing tongue weight capacity

[Craigmkd]

Sorry if I’m rehashing an old Thread here but could not find this info.
Will my WDH increase my available TW above the TV TW rating. For instance Trailer TW 875 - TV TW rating 850. I have noticed some vehicles have tongue ratings along with weight distributed tongue weight ratings. My setup TT 4900 / 7600 / TW 640 dry (haven’t weighed my tongue yet but I am sure I am pushing 850 if not past that) WDH E2 1000/10,000 -TV 8500 / 850 Thoughts? Forgot to add loaded trailer weight around 5500 puts me close to 15% TW

[jay2703]

Moving some of the loaded cargo from the front of the trailer to behind the wheels will decrease the actual tongue weight.

[Craigmkd]

Originally Posted by HangDiver

No.

Just checking specs on different vehicles I came across this at Car and Driver on Silverado specs and this is why I'm confused. I have seen these different numbers on different vehicles. I have a 2017 Armada and it only lists one TW number.
From Car and Driver for a Silverado 1500

Trailering

Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. : lbs 5000 Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. : lbs 500 Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. : lbs 7600 Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. : lbs 760 Maximum Trailering Capacity : lbs 8600

I guess I need to dig deeper into the Armada specs to determine if 850 is my dead weight # or not

[Oaklevel]

As you already know do not use dry weight as that is a fictional number. Dry weights are as the trailer leaves the factory with no propane, battery, no dealer added options and no water or gear. But they are a place to start.

[Craigmkd]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

As you already know do not use dry weight as that is a fictional number. Dry weights are as the trailer leaves the factory with no propane, battery, no dealer added options and no water or gear. But they are a place to start.

Copy that -I've added about 250 for WDH, Batteries and Propane Water tank is over the axles and grey an black aft of that

[FrankMor]

Do not include propane, it is in factory dry weight. Check the specs on your trailer.

Frank

[jbrosecity]

The suggestion to move weight back in the trailer is not necessarily a sound one. Depends on the Total weight of the trailer... Tongue weight should be about 10% to avoid sway. But I am chiming in here because I was wondering about a similar question. So my 2018 Forest River Sunseeker 2500ts Ford E-450 Chassis has a "hitch weight" rating of 7500/500... a bit confusing terminology as I think it should be "towing weight" of 7500 and tongue weight of 500. That works for flat towing where you have essentially no tongue weight at all, but with a 7500 lb trailer, properly loaded, you should have 750 lbs tongue weight.

I have a car hauler trailer which I have been towing behind my Chevy Suburban. With the tow package the max tow weight for the Burb is 8100 lbs and my trailer weighs about 6000 pounds loaded. The Suburban has air auto leveling, so it doesn't sag much at all with my tongue weight about 600 lbs or 10%. But I use the Andersen WDH and as I tighten it down I can measure the lift in the front of the trailer. I always do it enough to get about same height off the ground front and rear with the drop hitch setup properly to match the height of the unloaded receiver. So I KNOW the Andersen WDH is transferring weight off the tongue and up onto the Suburban chassis further forward as it is designed to do.

I was wondering what other Coach Drivers think about exceeding "max tongue weight" by 10% or so if using a WDH to relieve some of the loaded trailer's weight at the coupler. Love to hear from some others with a lot of tow experience.

[Craigmkd]

Jbro - like I posted in the earlier part of my thread The Chevy Silverado 1500 specs show a dead weight Tongue value of 500 and a weight distributed tongue weight value of 760! I have noticed this in other vehicles I have researched (these two values)This is the number I am looking for in my Armada. Towing manual with my vehicle states ‘maximum tongue weight of 850 when properly equipped’ so I can only assume properly equipped means WDH. Going to purchase a tongue weight scale at etrailer for 130

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by Craigmkd

Jbro - like I posted in the earlier part of my thread The Chevy Silverado 1500 specs show a dead weight Tongue value of 500 and a weight distributed tongue weight value of 760! I have noticed this in other vehicles I have researched (these two values)This is the number I am looking for in my Armada. Towing manual with my vehicle states ‘maximum tongue weight of 850 when properly equipped’ so I can only assume properly equipped means WDH. Going to purchase a tongue weight scale at etrailer for 130

"when properly equipped" probably means with a certain hitch or features. I would just look at the hitch on the vehicle. It likely has a sticker showing it's prescribed weight limits.

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by jay2703

Moving some of the loaded cargo from the front of the trailer to behind the wheels will decrease the actual tongue weight.

Much safer to keep cargo low and just in front of the axles. Sway is often intensified by a tongue light trailer.

[jbrosecity]

Hiya Craig

Tongue weight hitch would be handy. I am not too concerned about my suburban - manual says this:
"The trailer tongue weight should be 10 percent to 15 percent of the total loaded trailer weight, up to a maximum of 600 lbs (272 kg) with a weight carrying hitch or up to a maximum of 1,000 lbs (453 kg) with a weight distributing hitch." Unfortunately I cannot find similar kinds of figures for the Ford E450 in their manual. Furthermore in searching Google on the topic I came across a post stating that "The hitches on a finished type C motorhome are usually marked with warnings against using weight distribution" - but that post was several years old, and my rig is a 2018. Looks like I better do some checking with FR dealers, manufacturer, etc to find out if I can use a WDH on the back of the E450 Sunseeker

[Craigmkd]

Originally Posted by jbrosecity

Hiya Craig

Tongue weight hitch would be handy. I am not too concerned about my suburban - manual says this:
"The trailer tongue weight should be 10 percent to 15 percent of the total loaded trailer weight, up to a maximum of 600 lbs (272 kg) with a weight carrying hitch or up to a maximum of 1,000 lbs (453 kg) with a weight distributing hitch." Unfortunately I cannot find similar kinds of figures for the Ford E450 in their manual. Furthermore in searching Google on the topic I came across a post stating that "The hitches on a finished type C motorhome are usually marked with warnings against using weight distribution" - but that post was several years old, and my rig is a 2018. Looks like I better do some checking with FR dealers, manufacturer, etc to find out if I can use a WDH on the back of the E450 Sunseeker

Good luck with your research. What I find amazing with all the Rvs I’ve purchased I have never had one conversation about towing safety with the dealer especially a discussion about towing capacities and weight distribution. All of the ones I have dealt with don’t even have scales. Recently purchased a Dutchmen and caught the service guy hooking up WDH incorrectly (had the round bars extending approx 1/2” past the L brackets). I guess we know what their priority is and it’s not safety.

[dbledan]

With my truck it provides the weight distribution hitch weight on the sticker on the hitch. I would assume this is max weight before using the WDH otherwise they would not say that WDH is required above 500lbs tongue weight.

Is there not a sticker on the hitch? I had to get under the truck to find mine. It may be possible they don't want you to use one. I recall with some unibody cars it was a problem so I would consult the hitch and manual if you can.

[Villagerjjm]

To me, the term "properly equipped" would include the WDH, transmission cooler, heavy duty brakes, a reliable brake controller and springs /shocks to handle the weight.

In any case, I would take the TV and TT fully loaded and get it weighed where each axle is put on a separate scale.

[Wilco]

Nissan recommends a class IV WDH when towing greater than 5000#.
So the 8500#(850# tongue weight) towing capacity is with a WDH.

Download the Nissan 2017 towing guide.

[tbaker65]

Originally Posted by jbrosecity

Hiya Craig
Tongue weight hitch would be handy. I am not too concerned about my suburban - manual says this:
"The trailer tongue weight should be 10 percent to 15 percent of the total loaded trailer weight, up to a maximum of 600 lbs (272 kg) with a weight carrying hitch or up to a maximum of 1,000 lbs (453 kg) with a weight distributing hitch."

Yep. I quoted this, not necessarily as a direct reply to you jb, but to use as a reference to make a 'general reply'...

So, I'll make a captain obvious duh statement about this: just to keep in mind... The hitch weight capacity does not 'increase' per se for the TV when using a distribution hitch, rather the 'new rating' is assuming a properly installed WDH, which therefore redistributes the added 400 lbs from the new rating (1000) to the axles of the TV/TT. The actual capacity of the hitch weight is still 600...

The WDH is essentially tying the two frames of the TV and TT together, which therefore distributes the weight throughout the axles of both vehicles.

I am basically 'thinking out loud' here as I explain this to myself and maybe help someone else understand what the WDH is also... thanks for putting up with my jabber...

[tbaker65]

While we're on the subject of WDHs and TV hitch capacity, something else I thought about for myself to keep in mind and something others might want to think about. I have a Curt 17330 and with my extended drop shank that thing must like 80 lbs, which has to be factored in when considering hitch weight...

[jbrosecity]

tbaker65 - yep makes sense... so the WDH transfers the weight forward and off the tongue weight. I have watched the front of my car hauler trailer lift up as I crank down on the WDH which obviously means I am raising the rear of my TV (Suburban). I can also feel the difference driving as I transfer weight forward.

I'll still want to check with FR to find out if the Sunseeker 7500/50 hitch is rated to use in conjunction with a WDH. I don't have access to the coach right now so I cannot go look at the receiver. But I checked the Sunseeker manual (searchable) and there is no mention of using a WDH.

The Ford searchable manual does state this interesting info as well about proper use of a WDH... I'll paste it up here for reference

From Ford E450 manual
When hooking-up a trailer using a
weight-distributing hitch, always use the
following procedure:
1. Park the loaded vehicle, without the
trailer, on a level surface.
2. Measure the height to the top of your
vehicle's front wheel opening on the
fender. This is H1.
3. Attach the loaded trailer to your vehicle
without the weight-distributing bars
connected.
4. Measure the height to the top of your
vehicle's front wheel opening on the
fender a second time. This is H2.
5. Install and adjust the tension in the
weight-distributing bars so that the
height of your vehicle's front wheel
opening on the fender is approximately
half the way down from H2, toward H1.
6. Check that the trailer is level or slightly
nose down toward your vehicle. If not,
adjust the ball height.
When the trailer is level or slightly nose
down toward the vehicle:
• Lock the bar tension adjuster in place.
• Check that the trailer tongue securely
attaches and locks onto the hitch.
• Install safety chains, lighting, and trailer
brake controls as required by law or the
trailer manufacturer.

[bikendan]

Often the receiver sticker is rated for the receiver only, NOT the vehicle it's attached to.
This happens a lot with trucks. The same receiver will be bolted to a wide variety of the manufacturer's trucks, that are differently spec'd and have different towing abilities.

[tbaker65]

Originally Posted by jbrosecity

tbaker65 - yep makes sense... so the WDH transfers the weight forward and off the tongue weight...

Yep, and it also 'transfers' (distributes) some of that weight back to the trailer axle(s) as well...

So when you lock in the trunnion bars (or whatever they call them) on the WDH, you are essentially tying the two frames of the TV and trailer together... so that if you could picture now a single frame, without the downward pivot at the ball hitch, you can visualize that the weight is now distributed (carried) over the axles of both the trailer and truck as if it were more like one vehicle...

Good info you posted that you copied...