WDH setup

kozzy · 03-23-2013, 03:00 PM

Ok I might need a little help on this one. I have the Reese dual cam setup on my lacrosse 318 BHS. Had it all set on my Dodge 1500 and was great. Got a 2500 diesel over the winter, and today I spent a better portion of the day setting the hitch for the new truck. Now due to the high of the new truck I had to buy a new hitch bar with a lower drop. Anyways. Did all the measurements according to the Reese instructions, same that I did on my 1500. The camper is level right on, my rear end squats a little less than one inch, and my front end squats 1/4 of an inch, compared to unloaded. As at as pulling I can hardly tell its back there, but the ride seems sloppy. Seems like an am swaying a bit. My steering was real sluggish, but that was fixed when I got the new hitch bar, and dropped the ball another 1" and re adjusted everything.

Now I may be paranoid, because today is a very windy day here in central NY. Also, I have not adjusted the tire pressure on the camper, nor did I beef up the pressure on my truck ( my truck has 2 settings, light load and heavy load). I intend to do all of this before I leave for Florida on Thursday. So I guess I am wondering am I just feeling the effects of the wind and tire pressure, or is there something else I am missing and should be checking?

Fire away and thanks in advance.

acadianbob · 03-23-2013, 03:17 PM

So, your front end is down when loaded vs unloaded? That doesn't seem right to me. Generally, your front end is up a bit while the rear end is down a bit. You should check your Dodge manual for their recommendations. On my Ford, it says to adjust the WD bars so that the front end is halfway between unloaded height and loaded height without any WD bars. (So, you are bringing it halfway back.) Maybe you are putting too much pressure on the bars? That could make it feel squirrely.

EXGMTech · 03-23-2013, 03:23 PM

Yes too much on the bars gives a real weird feel, only need enough to make both vehicles level

Twisty · 03-23-2013, 03:24 PM

^^ I agree^^ with both!
I pulled a popup with a Ranger and when the bars were too tight it handled very poorly.

kozzy · 03-23-2013, 05:22 PM

I agree with all of you

When I drop to less on the bars it does let the front up, and the front end is all over. I have talked to to RV dealers and called Reese and followed heir instructions. They all agree that the truck ahold settle an inch or less when The trailer is hooked up and ready to to. The front end has to settle a little bit, so you know there is weight getting transferred to the front axle. From the ground to the wheel well up with out the trailer hooked up the height is 39 3/4 ". Hooked up it is 39 1/4 inch. Reese actually recommends it be a 1/2 squat in from so that's right on. In the rear I get almost an inch of squat, Aquino, exactly what reese recommends. When I engage the bars , every thing is nice and level.

This is exactly ow everything sat on my 1/2 ton and it was great.

When I was at the dealer today he said the front end should never be higher loaded then when unloaded. I didn't believe him so I tried it, and man my steering was soooo sloppy....

Once I did it this way all the sloppiness went away, but.im I still til I m feeling something just not sure

Twisty · 03-23-2013, 05:26 PM

Did you air up to max pressures yet?

kozzy · 03-23-2013, 05:40 PM

No I didn't. Gonna do all that tomorrow. That is the only thing not right now and I'm hoping that's it.

The hitch according to manufactures documentation is right on

It was also extremely windy here today

MtnGuy · 03-23-2013, 06:05 PM

The cams need to be centered exactly in the crooks of the spring bars when going straight. I would double check those.

kozzy · 03-23-2013, 06:55 PM

They were centered exactly where they need to be..

I'm hoping it was just the windy conditions today and the light tire PSI in my rear tires. When set on light load, they are approx 20 PSI less then when I set them for heavy loads.

thebrakeman · 03-27-2013, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acadianbob

So, your front end is down when loaded vs unloaded? That doesn't seem right to me. Generally, your front end is up a bit while the rear end is down a bit. You should check your Dodge manual for their recommendations. On my Ford, it says to adjust the WD bars so that the front end is halfway between unloaded height and loaded height without any WD bars. (So, you are bringing it halfway back.) Maybe you are putting too much pressure on the bars? That could make it feel squirrely.

That may be what Ford recommends. But I have used 2 different WDH systems in my time, and the instructions on kits themselves call for either bringing the front fenders back to original unloaded height, or at the most have the front and rear fenders at equal compression.

Remember, getting the truck level is only a byproduct of using a WDH. The main goal is to move weight back onto the front wheels, for proper traction, steering, etc. If after engaging the WDH kit, your front wheel wells are higher than before you attached the trailer, you are not transferring enough weight. If you have to perform an emergency lane change on a wet road, you just might find yourself understeering right into an avoidable rear-end collision.

Kozzy,
1. Check tire pressure on all 8 tires. If that solves the problem, leave things like they are. 1/4" front compression and ~3/4" rear compression is fine.
2. If tire pressure doesn't solve the problem, transfer some more weight, shooting for around 1/2" compression front and rear. This could require other changes (as you know) to get the trailer back to level. If you are worried about your front axle weight, get to a CAT scale.

For a 1500 series truck, there isn't a whole lot of front axle capacity, so you couldn't go much beyond stock front height, for fear of overloading the front axle. I used to tow a popup with a FWD minivan and a 400 lbs capacity single-bar WDH. No way could I push weight beyond stock ride height.

But for a 2500 series truck, you have plenty of front capacity. The Reese instructions should have guidelines for how far is too far.

acadianbob · 03-27-2013, 01:29 PM

thebrakeman, it may very well be that there is a difference in setup between "1/2 ton" and HDs. And I think that you are correct that the vehicle manufacturer concern is front axle capacity.

It's an interesting process fine tuning the WD hitch. Too little pressure and the front feels swimmy; too much pressure and the rear end feels swimmy. The key is making sure you have good vehicle dynamics and making sure your axles aren't overloaded.

kozzy · 03-27-2013, 01:31 PM

I agree...thanks for all the tips. I checked the tire pressure finally in the camper yesterday, was at 53, so those are now where they are supposed to be. I also bumped up the pressure in my rear tires of my truck from 45 to 70 PSI, which is the heavy load setting. A buddy if mine said that should do it. Today, when I sanitize the fresh water tank, ill take a ride to swish the water around, and hope on the highway and see if that all made a difference, im hoping it does. Plus, today it is not windy out either...

ironj · 03-27-2013, 01:58 PM

hey kozz, what particular hitch shank did you switch to? im having an issue with my lifted truck...the origianl shank ran out of real estate....need a longer one....was kinda hoping to find one that i could use in my 2.5" reciever without an adapter.....i absolutely HATE messing with that lil sleeve!! LOL but at this point im open to whatever....next long outing isnt till memorial day weekend, but rather get on it sooner than later....also did i read taht right that you were running your trailer tires at 53psi? or thats what they were and you fixed them? 65psi right?

thebrakeman · 03-28-2013, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acadianbob

thebrakeman, it may very well be that there is a difference in setup between "1/2 ton" and HDs. And I think that you are correct that the vehicle manufacturer concern is front axle capacity.

It's an interesting process fine tuning the WD hitch. Too little pressure and the front feels swimmy; too much pressure and the rear end feels swimmy. The key is making sure you have good vehicle dynamics and making sure your axles aren't overloaded.

Thanks for the comments, and yes there could be slight differences in how the OEM recommends setting up.
I can understand not wanting the front to be loaded any more than stock. I don't agree with it, but I understand the concern.
But recommending that the front be loaded lighter than before the trailer is attached just does not seem right to me. I suspect the vehicle owner's manual is written conservatively, to be sure someone doesn't overload their front axle. But anyone engaged in this thread is probably on the ball enough to take proper measurements. Bring the front back to stock height is practically the same as saying there is no more (and no less) weight than stock. And stock front loading will guarantee that the rear is still squatting to some degree.

jeeplj8 · 03-28-2013, 12:18 PM

One thing to keep in mind is that when you went from the 1500 to the 2500 you gained a whole lot of rear axle weight rating. you probably do not need to transfer as much weight to the front axle as your 1500 did.

Also - Mountain man comment about the cam position is dead on, every time you adjust head height and angle, it changes the relative position of the cams.

Patience is the key here. Remember that what feels right for someone else with their trailer and truck may not feel right to you. I know when I had my 05 Ram 2500 I had to adjust to how little squat I got in the rear with heavy tongue weights that pushed down the Tahoe it replaced.

ironj · 03-28-2013, 12:35 PM

also at the end of the day its really all speculation untill you put the axles on a scale and really see what is happening...ford says to adjust bars to remove HALF the lift of the front after loading the rear.....that was a good starting point for me, but in the end i ended up having to add 3 additional washers to the head to tilt it more and get the SCALE numbers closer to even...while it was not a huge change in the setting it made a considerable difference in front end wander......until my wife loaded the back with a ton of junk from shopping..!!!!....but thats an entirely diff story...lol

good luck, let us know what your final solution is....

thebrakeman · 03-28-2013, 01:02 PM

And that's my point. Moving the front half-way to where it should be (Ford's recommendation) is not enough for proper vehicle stability. I'm guessing that with 3 more washers, you got the front back to stock height or lower. Fantastic!

Just because someone has a whole lot more rear axle capacity...that is not a reason to feel you shouldn't have the WDH adjusted properly. That logic (with all respect) stems from believing that a WDH is primarily just for leveling the truck, removing rear squat.

The primary goal of a WDH is to take any weight that was removed from the front wheels (due to TW), and put it back on the front wheels. This is true for a 1/2-ton, 1-ton, minivan, or anything that allows the use of a WDH.

MtnGuy · 03-28-2013, 01:31 PM

The manual of my 2006 F150 reads:

"Attach the trailer to the vehicle and adjust the hitch equalizers so that the front bumper height is within 1/2" (13mm) of the reference point." (The reference point is determined with no trailer attached to the truck). "After proper adjustment, the rear bumper should be no higher than in Step 2". (Again, referring to no trailer attached to the truck).

1st of all, I think it funny that Ford uses the term "equalizers" for spring bars.

The way I interpret that is that the front bumper can be 1/2" higher or lower than with the WDH hooked up vs. the truck with no trailer attached. IMHO, using the front bumper is not the best place to measure, but I can understand what they are trying to accomplish. If the back of the truck goes down without any additional weight being transferred off or onto the front axle, then the front bumper is going to come up because the back of the truck is going down....even though the front fender measurement would stay the same, if that makes sense. If it comes up over 1/2", then the spring bars need to tightened up some. If the front bumper ends up over 1/2" lower, then the spring bars need to be loosened some. But again, you can get some weird measurements at the front bumper vs. the fender wells.

ironj · 03-28-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebrakeman

And that's my point. Moving the front half-way to where it should be (Ford's recommendation) is not enough for proper vehicle stability. I'm guessing that with 3 more washers, you got the front back to stock height or lower. Fantastic!

Just because someone has a whole lot more rear axle capacity...that is not a reason to feel you shouldn't have the WDH adjusted properly. That logic (with all respect) stems from believing that a WDH is primarily just for leveling the truck, removing rear squat.

The primary goal of a WDH is to take any weight that was removed from the front wheels (due to TW), and put it back on the front wheels. This is true for a 1/2-ton, 1-ton, minivan, or anything that allows the use of a WDH.

actually no....the additional washers brought up the rear some, but the front actually stayed the same height despite the different readings on the scales......my truck now sits level with the trailer on, but still sits about a half inch higher in the front and squats about an inch in the back......

beats me, but it weighs out correctly and more importantly tows correctly

MtnGuy · 03-28-2013, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironj

my truck now sits level with the trailer on, but still sits about a half inch higher in the front and squats about an inch in the back......

beats me, but it weighs out correctly and more importantly tows correctly

If the axle weights are correct and it tows well, that is more important than the truck sitting entirely level. Some trucks just sit differently with loads than others.

My truck is still a bit higher in back than in the front with the trailer connected.......but the axle weights are good. My truck sits real high in back without the trailer hooked up.

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