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Old 06-16-2011, 09:29 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bilcin View Post
To take some weight off of the hitch, could I fill my gray and black tanks (each 35 gal), which are located behind the second axle on the trailer (trailer has 2 axles). the water would weigh 560 lbs, since this would be lifting the front of the trailer would this take 560 pounds off of the TV, or would the WDH prevent this from happening?

BTW thank you for your suggestions, I am off tot he scales now to weigh my TV.

Bill
Our dealer told us NOT to fill the tanks before traveling. you're putting an awful lot of weight on whatever is holding the tanks in place and they really aren't designed for that.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:53 AM   #22
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Couple things. The tanks will "travel" well full. Do it all the time when the campground has no sewer. Will be doing it again this weekend.

Second: If you add the Front GAWR and the Rear GAWR together it is way more than the Gross TRUCK weight rating. The Gross Truck rating ALSO includes the frame rating. While you can load the rear axle to it max, you then must not load the front to its max or you will overstress the frame.

Ditto many times to not reduce tongue load below 12% of trailer gross to avoid severe sway over the max your sway control can deal with.

The only way to find true tongue load is to weight the TT disconnected with the tongue on one scale and the wheels on another.

A WD hitch will spread the tongue weight to the trailer wheels and the trucks two axles. Weights together only will give you your combined weight; your loaded TV axle weights; and allow you to determine actual connected trailer axle load. To determine your starting numbers, a disconnected weigh (truck and camper) is required.
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:22 PM   #23
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The Trouble With Tribbles

Why the 2500HD can pull more than it can carry.

Just got back from the scales after loading the camper and truck for our first Summer Trip after all the work I did on it since our Winter Travels.

For those who have never tried to do this here is how it works. For $9.50 you get your first weigh and your second one within 24 hours is a buck.

First Weigh Combined: Photo Attached

Steer Axle = 4180
Drive Axle = 5100
GROSS = 16,700

Second Weigh Truck Only Photo Attached

Steer Axle = 4160
Drive Axle = 3600
GROSS = 7760

Specs Truck:
(Based on 2008 GMC Sierra CrewCab Duramax/Allison with Stock 3.73 rear)

Front GAWR = 4800
Rear GAWR = 6900
GVWR = 9200
GCWR = 25,500 pounds
MAX TOW RATING = 15,500 pounds

Specs on Camper from Yellow Sticker
GVWR = 7219 +1950 cargo = 9169 Gross Allowed
Max on axles = 8000 (4000 pound axles)

The Math:
Gross weight (Loaded) of camper equals Combined weight minus Truck weight (loaded disconnected)

16,720 - 7760 = 8960 Max allowed = 9169

Actual Pin Weight = Truck weight (hooked - SUM AXLE weights) minus Truck weight (Unhooked - SUM AXLE weights) = 9280 - 7760 = 1520

Optimum Range Percentage of pin weight to Camper Gross weight 15-25%
15% -> 8960 x 15% = 1344
20% -> 8960 x 20% = 1792
25% -> 8960 x 25% = 2240

Actual Pin Percentage = 1520/8960 = 17%

Gross Weigh Truck (hooked) = SUM AXLE WEIGHTS (hooked)
4180 Front + 5100 Rear = 9280 pounds

Actual truck weight 80 pounds OVERWEIGHT.

Although I am WAY under my TOW RATING; I have maxed out my 2500HD with a 9200 pound camper. The REASON is the Duramax engine and Allison Transmission. The curb weight in the specs does NOT include options. My allowable truck cargo weight is significantly reduced do to the weight of the engine and trans. My truck is 2WD. If I had a 4x4 the weight of the transaxle and heavier front axle would need to be added as well; further reducing the pin weight (and thereby the size of the camper) I could tow.
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Old 06-16-2011, 01:33 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bilcin View Post
Took my 2011 26tbss and 2005 F 150 XLT to the scales yesterday and the weights are confusing....

Weighed front axle = 3,200 lbs (GAWR 3,750 lbs)
Weighed Rear axle with trialer hitched = 3,400 lbs (GAWR 3,830 lbs)
The operator said my tow vehicle weighed 6,880 lbs.
Trailer weighed = 5,420.

Total came to 12,300 well under the 15,000 GCWR of my tow vehicle.

Tounge weight is listed at 600 lbs.
I was alone, I weigh 230 pounds and half tank of gas (90 lbs).

My GVWR = 7200 lbs, I subtracted the weight of 6,880 and I came up with 320 lbs for gear and family? is my math correct?

According to ford, the base curb weight of my 2005 Ford 150 XLT is 5,471 lbs.

If I subtract the weight 5471 from the weight of 6,880 = 1409.

Now from that 1409 lbs I took my weight of 230 lbs and 90 lbs gas that comes to 1,089 lbs. Does this mean the tounge weght is 1,089 lbs???
I am using a WDH.

Any help would be appreciated!
Bill

Went to the scales today, this time no trailer, (didn't have time to pick it up and then drop off at storage place) and the Full time employee was there and got me my weights on the axles.

Front 3,400 lbs
Rear 2,450.

So, from my first weighing with the traler I have 1,050 lbs on
the rear axle and front 3,200.

So If I am understanding the replies, the approximate tounge weight is close to 1,00o lbs. I got this from subtracting the second from the first weight. I know this is not the tru tounge weight, but is this close to reality? I also went to "Cat Scales" for the weights. I have to go back 1 more time with the trailer and do the weights with the WDH undone.

Again, I really appreciate all the replies from everyone!
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Old 06-16-2011, 01:57 PM   #25
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If these weights are correct, then yes, you have 1030 lbs. added to your truck through the trailer tongue. Your actual trailer tongue weight will be more. Wow, that is a big jump from the listed 600 lb. tongue weight listed on the Forest River site. Is your camper already loaded for camping ???

You must be using really sensitive scales.....most truck scales have 20 lb. increments. It is unusual to see odd numbers in the second from right digit spot. What type of scales are you using ?? I am just wondering how accurate the scales are, and if the operators truly know how to operate them.

1 thing I notice that will help the overall weight on your truck, is that you do not have enough weight back on the front axle when you hook up the trailer. You are still missing 200 lbs. there. By adjusting your hitch, you can put your lost weight back on the front axle, loose a little on the rear axle, and throw some weight back to your trailer axle. Once you get your hitch adjusted, you will probably lose all sag in the back of your truck, and you won't need the air bags and beefier springs that was suggested earlier.

I don't remember if you stated what hitch you are using, but hopefully it is an integrated WDH with sway control. With those types of hitches, putting more weight on the front axle will improve your sway control by tightening up the spring bars on their seats or cams.
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:04 PM   #26
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OK, something just ain't a right here.

Weighed front axle = 3,200 lbs (GAWR 3,750 lbs)
Weighed Rear axle with trialer hitched = 3,400 lbs (GAWR 3,830 lbs)
The operator said my tow vehicle weighed 6,880 lbs.


Adding up the front and rear axle comes to 6600 lbs. That should be the tow vehicle weight. The operator states your tow vehicle weighs 6880 lbs. There is something rotten in Denmark.....ie your local scales. Now I am really questioning the accuracy of the scales and/or operators.

Look at Lou's 2nd Cat Scale reading. The steer and drive axles add up to the total truck weight.

If you use the total axle weights of 6600 lbs., then that indicates your trailer tongue is exerting 750 lbs. on your truck....much more in line with the Forest River stats.

If it were me before adjusting the WDH, I would search out another scale to use. A certified Cat Scale would be good, but if you are not near 1, then a local rock quarry might help you out. My local rock quarry has let me go across their scales repeatedly (free !!), and I record the readings from their digital readout while sitting in the truck. I do have to get out to read my trailer axle only, as I am past the readout station. I will install my spring bars, and do it again. I will go home, drop the trailer, and come back and do the truck without the trailer.

You can find the nearest Cat Scale here: CAT Scale

You can go across 3 times, and get some excellent information: 2 times with the trailer hooked up (with and without the spring bars attached), drop the trailer in the lot, and take the truck back across. Don't forget to pick up the trailer before you head home.
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:24 PM   #27
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Chap, I noticed that too.

I just assumed their scale dudes are not that well versed in their equipment. Bill, If you could photograph your weight tickets we can help you figure this out. You should re-weight with spring bars on and again with spring bars off. You never have to move your rig; just have them push the button again when you are ready.
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:27 PM   #28
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I just assumed their scale dudes are not that well versed in their equipment.
Kinda makes me question the rest of the readings after seeing that.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:05 AM   #29
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Chap, I noticed that too.

I just assumed their scale dudes are not that well versed in their equipment. Bill, If you could photograph your weight tickets we can help you figure this out. You should re-weight with spring bars on and again with spring bars off. You never have to move your rig; just have them push the button again when you are ready.

I will put the pics of the weght forms. They are from CAT SCALES. Look exactly like yours posted.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:12 AM   #30
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I will put the pics of the weght forms. They are from CAT SCALES. Look exactly like yours posted.
Do the numbers add up like mine did?
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