Weighed my Wildwood & Tow vehicle and am confused...

[trudinator]

Originally Posted by Bilcin

To take some weight off of the hitch, could I fill my gray and black tanks (each 35 gal), which are located behind the second axle on the trailer (trailer has 2 axles). the water would weigh 560 lbs, since this would be lifting the front of the trailer would this take 560 pounds off of the TV, or would the WDH prevent this from happening?

BTW thank you for your suggestions, I am off tot he scales now to weigh my TV.

Bill

Our dealer told us NOT to fill the tanks before traveling. you're putting an awful lot of weight on whatever is holding the tanks in place and they really aren't designed for that.

[Herk7769]

Couple things. The tanks will "travel" well full. Do it all the time when the campground has no sewer. Will be doing it again this weekend.

Second: If you add the Front GAWR and the Rear GAWR together it is way more than the Gross TRUCK weight rating. The Gross Truck rating ALSO includes the frame rating. While you can load the rear axle to it max, you then must not load the front to its max or you will overstress the frame.

Ditto many times to not reduce tongue load below 12% of trailer gross to avoid severe sway over the max your sway control can deal with.

The only way to find true tongue load is to weight the TT disconnected with the tongue on one scale and the wheels on another.

A WD hitch will spread the tongue weight to the trailer wheels and the trucks two axles. Weights together only will give you your combined weight; your loaded TV axle weights; and allow you to determine actual connected trailer axle load. To determine your starting numbers, a disconnected weigh (truck and camper) is required.

[Herk7769]

Why the 2500HD can pull more than it can carry.

Just got back from the scales after loading the camper and truck for our first Summer Trip after all the work I did on it since our Winter Travels.

For those who have never tried to do this here is how it works. For $9.50 you get your first weigh and your second one within 24 hours is a buck.

First Weigh Combined: Photo Attached

Steer Axle = 4180
Drive Axle = 5100
GROSS = 16,700

Second Weigh Truck Only Photo Attached

Steer Axle = 4160
Drive Axle = 3600
GROSS = 7760

Specs Truck:
(Based on 2008 GMC Sierra CrewCab Duramax/Allison with Stock 3.73 rear)

Front GAWR = 4800
Rear GAWR = 6900
GVWR = 9200
GCWR = 25,500 pounds
MAX TOW RATING = 15,500 pounds

Specs on Camper from Yellow Sticker
GVWR = 7219 +1950 cargo = 9169 Gross Allowed
Max on axles = 8000 (4000 pound axles)

The Math:
Gross weight (Loaded) of camper equals Combined weight minus Truck weight (loaded disconnected)

16,720 - 7760 = 8960 Max allowed = 9169

Actual Pin Weight = Truck weight (hooked - SUM AXLE weights) minus Truck weight (Unhooked - SUM AXLE weights) = 9280 - 7760 = 1520

Optimum Range Percentage of pin weight to Camper Gross weight 15-25%
15% -> 8960 x 15% = 1344
20% -> 8960 x 20% = 1792
25% -> 8960 x 25% = 2240

Actual Pin Percentage = 1520/8960 = 17%

Gross Weigh Truck (hooked) = SUM AXLE WEIGHTS (hooked)
4180 Front + 5100 Rear = 9280 pounds

Actual truck weight 80 pounds OVERWEIGHT.

Although I am WAY under my TOW RATING; I have maxed out my 2500HD with a 9200 pound camper. The REASON is the Duramax engine and Allison Transmission. The curb weight in the specs does NOT include options. My allowable truck cargo weight is significantly reduced do to the weight of the engine and trans. My truck is 2WD. If I had a 4x4 the weight of the transaxle and heavier front axle would need to be added as well; further reducing the pin weight (and thereby the size of the camper) I could tow.

[Bilcin]

Originally Posted by Bilcin

Took my 2011 26tbss and 2005 F 150 XLT to the scales yesterday and the weights are confusing....

Weighed front axle = 3,200 lbs (GAWR 3,750 lbs)
Weighed Rear axle with trialer hitched = 3,400 lbs (GAWR 3,830 lbs)
The operator said my tow vehicle weighed 6,880 lbs.
Trailer weighed = 5,420.

Total came to 12,300 well under the 15,000 GCWR of my tow vehicle.

Tounge weight is listed at 600 lbs.
I was alone, I weigh 230 pounds and half tank of gas (90 lbs).

My GVWR = 7200 lbs, I subtracted the weight of 6,880 and I came up with 320 lbs for gear and family? is my math correct?

According to ford, the base curb weight of my 2005 Ford 150 XLT is 5,471 lbs.

If I subtract the weight 5471 from the weight of 6,880 = 1409.

Now from that 1409 lbs I took my weight of 230 lbs and 90 lbs gas that comes to 1,089 lbs. Does this mean the tounge weght is 1,089 lbs???
I am using a WDH.

Any help would be appreciated!
Bill

Went to the scales today, this time no trailer, (didn't have time to pick it up and then drop off at storage place) and the Full time employee was there and got me my weights on the axles.

Front 3,400 lbs
Rear 2,450.

So, from my first weighing with the traler I have 1,050 lbs on
the rear axle and front 3,200.

So If I am understanding the replies, the approximate tounge weight is close to 1,00o lbs. I got this from subtracting the second from the first weight. I know this is not the tru tounge weight, but is this close to reality? I also went to "Cat Scales" for the weights. I have to go back 1 more time with the trailer and do the weights with the WDH undone.

Again, I really appreciate all the replies from everyone!

[MtnGuy]

If these weights are correct, then yes, you have 1030 lbs. added to your truck through the trailer tongue. Your actual trailer tongue weight will be more. Wow, that is a big jump from the listed 600 lb. tongue weight listed on the Forest River site. Is your camper already loaded for camping ???

You must be using really sensitive scales.....most truck scales have 20 lb. increments. It is unusual to see odd numbers in the second from right digit spot. What type of scales are you using ?? I am just wondering how accurate the scales are, and if the operators truly know how to operate them.

1 thing I notice that will help the overall weight on your truck, is that you do not have enough weight back on the front axle when you hook up the trailer. You are still missing 200 lbs. there. By adjusting your hitch, you can put your lost weight back on the front axle, loose a little on the rear axle, and throw some weight back to your trailer axle. Once you get your hitch adjusted, you will probably lose all sag in the back of your truck, and you won't need the air bags and beefier springs that was suggested earlier.

I don't remember if you stated what hitch you are using, but hopefully it is an integrated WDH with sway control. With those types of hitches, putting more weight on the front axle will improve your sway control by tightening up the spring bars on their seats or cams.

[MtnGuy]

OK, something just ain't a right here.

Weighed front axle = 3,200 lbs (GAWR 3,750 lbs)
Weighed Rear axle with trialer hitched = 3,400 lbs (GAWR 3,830 lbs)
The operator said my tow vehicle weighed 6,880 lbs.

Adding up the front and rear axle comes to 6600 lbs. That should be the tow vehicle weight. The operator states your tow vehicle weighs 6880 lbs. There is something rotten in Denmark.....ie your local scales. Now I am really questioning the accuracy of the scales and/or operators.

Look at Lou's 2nd Cat Scale reading. The steer and drive axles add up to the total truck weight.

If you use the total axle weights of 6600 lbs., then that indicates your trailer tongue is exerting 750 lbs. on your truck....much more in line with the Forest River stats.

If it were me before adjusting the WDH, I would search out another scale to use. A certified Cat Scale would be good, but if you are not near 1, then a local rock quarry might help you out. My local rock quarry has let me go across their scales repeatedly (free !!), and I record the readings from their digital readout while sitting in the truck. I do have to get out to read my trailer axle only, as I am past the readout station. I will install my spring bars, and do it again. I will go home, drop the trailer, and come back and do the truck without the trailer.

You can find the nearest Cat Scale here: CAT Scale

You can go across 3 times, and get some excellent information: 2 times with the trailer hooked up (with and without the spring bars attached), drop the trailer in the lot, and take the truck back across. Don't forget to pick up the trailer before you head home.

[Herk7769]

Chap, I noticed that too.

I just assumed their scale dudes are not that well versed in their equipment. Bill, If you could photograph your weight tickets we can help you figure this out. You should re-weight with spring bars on and again with spring bars off. You never have to move your rig; just have them push the button again when you are ready.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by herk7769

I just assumed their scale dudes are not that well versed in their equipment.

Kinda makes me question the rest of the readings after seeing that.

[Bilcin]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Chap, I noticed that too.

I just assumed their scale dudes are not that well versed in their equipment. Bill, If you could photograph your weight tickets we can help you figure this out. You should re-weight with spring bars on and again with spring bars off. You never have to move your rig; just have them push the button again when you are ready.

I will put the pics of the weght forms. They are from CAT SCALES. Look exactly like yours posted.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Bilcin

I will put the pics of the weght forms. They are from CAT SCALES. Look exactly like yours posted.

Do the numbers add up like mine did?

[Bilcin]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

If these weights are correct, then yes, you have 1030 lbs. added to your truck through the trailer tongue. Your actual trailer tongue weight will be more. Wow, that is a big jump from the listed 600 lb. tongue weight listed on the Forest River site. Is your camper already loaded for camping ???

You must be using really sensitive scales.....most truck scales have 20 lb. increments. It is unusual to see odd numbers in the second from right digit spot. What type of scales are you using ?? I am just wondering how accurate the scales are, and if the operators truly know how to operate them.

1 thing I notice that will help the overall weight on your truck, is that you do not have enough weight back on the front axle when you hook up the trailer. You are still missing 200 lbs. there. By adjusting your hitch, you can put your lost weight back on the front axle, loose a little on the rear axle, and throw some weight back to your trailer axle. Once you get your hitch adjusted, you will probably lose all sag in the back of your truck, and you won't need the air bags and beefier springs that was suggested earlier.

I don't remember if you stated what hitch you are using, but hopefully it is an integrated WDH with sway control. With those types of hitches, putting more weight on the front axle will improve your sway control by tightening up the spring bars on their seats or cams.

Yes, the trailer is empty (no gear of water) and I am using a reese WDH with a seperate sway control. Be fore I start messing with the Hitch, I am only using the 2 link in the chains for the spring bars. What is the outcome if I were to use the 3rd link, or first link? Does this alter the weight on the TV axles? I will be posting the tow tickets in the morning. Also, if I were to upgrade the rear Truck springs this would not increase my trucks cargo capacity correct? It is the axles that I am limited by correct?

Thank You.

[Bilcin]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Do the numbers add up like mine did?

I only have the first set of weights with the trailer attached:
Front axle 3200
Rear axle 3400
This brings my Truck weght at 6600 lbs, and as was pointed out it is different from what the ticket says. It states my truck weight is 6800.

Trailer 5420

Total 12,300

And todays weight w/o trailer

Front axle 3400
Rear Axle 2450

I Hope the pics of the tickets can clear this up!

Thanks

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Bilcin

I only have the first set of weights with the trailer attached:
Front axle 3200
Rear axle 3400
This brings my Truck weight at 6600 lbs, and as was pointed out it is different from what the ticket says. It states my truck weight is 6800.

Trailer 5420

Total 12,300

And today's weight w/o trailer

Front axle 3400
Rear Axle 2450

I Hope the pics of the tickets can clear this up!

Thanks

Bill,

Can you try to post the pictures of the tickets again? I am dense this morning and still don't get it. How can your truck axles weight 6600 pounds yet the truck weighs 6800?

If you add the stated axle loads to the trailer you still don't come up with your combined weight. Only by adding the higher 6800 pound number to the trailer axles do you get 12,220 (12,300).

axles plus trailer comes to 12,020

"your ticket weight" (6800) plus trailer comes to 12,220 rounded to 12,300

[MtnGuy]

Some clarifications are needed:

Originally Posted by Bilcin

Yes, the trailer is empty (no gear of water) and I am using a reese WDH with a seperate sway control.

Is the Reese a Straight Line Dual Cam setup like this ??



Or do you have something like this for sway control ?? (Amazon.com: Reese Towpower 83660 Value Friction Sway Control: Automotive)

Originally Posted by Bilcin

Before I start messing with the Hitch, I am only using the 2 link in the chains for the spring bars. What is the outcome if I were to use the 3rd link, or first link?

What are you considering the 2nd link ?? Does that mean you have 1 link hanging free, or do you have 2 links under tension between the spring bars and snap up bracket. Reese setups recommend at least 5 lengths of chain under tension. I agree, don't start messing with your setup until we can figure out your weight tickets.

Originally Posted by Bilcin

Does this alter the weight on the TV axles?

Switching to a different chain length will definitely alter your axle weights.

Originally Posted by Bilcin

I will be posting the tow tickets in the morning. Also, if I were to upgrade the rear Truck springs this would not increase my trucks cargo capacity correct? It is the axles that I am limited by correct?

I agree with Lou, seeing your weight sheet will be very interesting. Also, posting a photo of your setup would be great.

As stated before in this thread, adding air bags of beefier springs to your truck will not increase your cargo carrying capacity. With a properly setup WDH, those add-ons should not be needed. If they are needed after all is said and done, then a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup should be considered.

Also, I don't think the truck stats have been addressed here. Engine, final drive ratio, cab type, bed length, and whether you have the factory tow package is other information that needs to be addressed.

[Bilcin]

Ok, here are the pics of the weight tickets.
#1 shows the weight of my truck, both axles weighing 6880 (drive axle) and trailer weight at 5420 for total weight of 12,300.

When I told the attendent I needed each truck axle weighed pic # 2 shows mt Front axle weight at 3200.

Pic #3 shows rear axle weight (steer axle) at 3,400 and my trailer weight at 5420.

I located the 200lb difference in weight from pic #1 6880 and pics #2 & 3. these show axle weights of 3200 and 3400 = 6600. I was inside my truck at the first weighing (pic #1) and for reasons only known to god, on pics 2 & 3 I was oustside of the truck off the scales. I weight 230 so that might explain the 200lb difference.



When I went back without my trailer I weighed just the truck.

Pic #4 shows the front axle at 3440
Pic #5 shows the rear axle at 2560. To be as accurate as I can, I had half a tank of gas when I went for the first weighing and a a full tank when I weighed just the truck, a 90lbs heavier with just the truck pics.

I have a Reese WDH like the one you posted, only I have a seperate sway control bar.

I called the dealership, they again, stated the dry hitch weight is 600 lbs, but I have 2- 30 pounds LP bottles and a battery on the front of trailer bringing the weight to about 810 lbs tounge weight.

My truck specs are as follows

2005 Ford 150 XLT Super cab 4x4 ( 4 doors, front doors open oppisite of rear doors).
Tow package (Trans cooler, Class IV Hitch)
3.73 gears
17 inch tires
5.4 Tritan V8
7200 lb GVWR
Front axle GAWR 3750
Rear GAWR 3850
GCVWR 15,000

I hope this clears up my problem or it might even bring up other problems!

Thank You guys for helping me!!!!

[MtnGuy]

Doing some ciphering, and getting a headache.

I gotta find out what the scale operator had in his coffee.......geez.

Bilcin, were sitting in the truck when the weights were done in photo #4 & 5 ???

The good thing with your truck stats, is you should have a fairly long wheelbased truck at 145", and a tow capacity of 9300 lbs......same setup as my truck.

[Bilcin]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

Doing some ciphering, and getting a headache.

I gotta find out what the scale operator had in his coffee.......geez.

Bilcin, were sitting in the truck when the weights were done in photo #4 & 5 ???

The good thing with your truck stats, is you should have a fairly long wheelbased truck at 145", and a tow capacity of 9300 lbs......same setup as my truck.

Sorry for the head ache!!! Yes in Pic # 4 & 5 I was in the truck. And yes my wheel base is 144.5 inches.

When I went to the scales I thought it would be fairly straight forward, but he had no Idea what I wanted. I asked to wheigh my front, rear axles and trailer ALL seperate, and he couldn't uderstand why I needed seperate weights!!! He was better than his other employee, he coudn't come up with a reading and told me my truck was to light!!! At least the other guy got me weght readings, maybe off a bit though....
So it does look like with the trailer attatched and me in the truck I have only 300 pounds for family! Wife will not be happy sitting home!!! LOL

Does using different chain lengths on the WDH make a difference?

Mtnguy &Herk7769 Thanks for ALL your help and suggestions, they are al very helpful!!!

Bill McKenna

[MtnGuy]

Still ciphering. You are not responsible for the headaches here......that Cat scale operator is.

Yes, different chain lengths will make big difference. This question from my post #34 remains unanswered:

What are you considering the 2nd link ?? Does that mean you have 1 link hanging free, or do you have 2 links under tension between the spring bars and snap up bracket. Reese setups recommend at least 5 lengths of chain under tension. I agree, don't start messing with your setup until we can figure out your weight tickets.


We have to determine how you currently have your setup. A picture would be great next time you have your trailer hooked up.

Since you got out of your truck somewhere between photo # 1 and 2, and were sitting in your truck in photo #4, I will have to presume that you sitting in the seat might add 150 lbs. to the front axle in photo #2 ( the seat is about 1/3 of the way back between the front and rear axle). So you probably are at 3350 lbs. with the trailer hooked up, and 3400 with just the truck. That ain't too shabby. Loosing 1 more chain length under tension (if you are within the Reese minimum 5 link specs) will put your over your unloaded weight, but not by much, and should still keep the front axle under the GAWR. It will throw a couple of more pounds back on the trailer axle, but don't expect much more cargo and passanger capacity than your stated 320 lbs. Others can chime in if I am missing something obvious.

Again, using my own setup as an example, ready to camp but without the missus and dog, I have 480 lbs. to go with my GVWR. Adding their 230 lbs. (the dog weighs 120 lbs., of course ) to the mix, I am now within 250 lbs. of my GVWR. That is the down side of a 1/2 ton pickup. The manfacturers state 10,000 or more tow capacity, but in reality that is much less because of the stated GVWR......tongue weight is a killer.

[Bilcin]

Yes, from #34 post, I have 1 link hanging free. And I agree, the Scale Operator made a simple task into a monumental one!!!!!!!!!!! Geeze, it was a simple task at that! LOL

[MtnGuy]

If it were me, here is what I would try:

Getting loaded for camping, I would aim for loading the camper heavy in the back, since it looks like you have plenty of tongue weight. It doesn't mean you can't use your front pass thru, but keep it lite if possible. Looks like the fridge is behind the wheels, and that is good. You can load up the wardrobe, and secure luggage across the bunks....that type of thing. I load our camper heavy in the back.

Ready to go camping with the camper and the truck loaded, go back across the CAT scales.....hopefully getting an operator on duty that knows what they are doing. Since the 1st weigh-in is the expensive one, do 4 weigh-ins.

1. With camper and truck without spring bars.
2. With camper and truck with spring bars at current setting.
3. With camper and truck with 1 chain link tighter on the spring bar.
4. Drop the camper in the lot, and weigh just the truck.

Be consistent either in or out of the truck.....better in. You can figure out the missus' addition later if she is not available for the weigh-ins. From the front seat, aproximately 2/3 of the weight there should be reflected on the front axle, and 1/3 on the back axle.

Number 1 minus number 4 will give you a true tongue weight. No. 3 should give you more weight on the trailer and front truck axle, and less on the rear axle than #2. The additional weight put on the trailer axle will be taken from your truck weight. You have to be careful here that you don't overload the truck front axle, though. Your current setup might be the best if #3 adds too much weight to the front axle.....compared to the truck alone.

Sounds like you have a good handle on things, now for the final tweaking.