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Old 11-15-2013, 07:40 PM   #41
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No, I agree with everything he said with the exception of that one sentence. lol
Well you, me and a few others may, but after one of you old guys crawl out from under one truck, and roll under another to inspect...... can u remember what you were looking for? LOL JUST KIDDING!!!

those were hypothetical numbers, but you of all people should know that sometimes there are differences that are hard to determine with out a pair of mics.
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:12 PM   #42
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You can look at the trucks and the build specs. and you may not see any changes. The material in the springs can be the difference. You can not always see the difference. As stated before, brake size or even brake material can make the difference. I do not know the difference in the truck listed but work for a vehicle Maf. An know you can't always see the change even when not mounted in the truck. Trust me the engineers have numbers to back it up.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:38 PM   #43
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Currently there's an SAE J2807 towing standards stalemate in which all of the major pickup manufacturers, except for one smaller-volume player, are waiting for each other to voluntarily adopt and report figures according to the new standard. When will voluntary, universal compliance finally happen? It's anyone's guess, but today, nearly three years after the establishment of the standards, only Toyota is voluntarily abiding by and reporting towing capacity of its full-size trucks.

Read more: Stalemate: J2807 Truck Towing Standard - Truck Trend News
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:57 PM   #44
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Currently there's an SAE J2807 towing standards stalemate in which all of the major pickup manufacturers, except for one smaller-volume player, are waiting for each other to voluntarily adopt and report figures according to the new standard. When will voluntary, universal compliance finally happen? It's anyone's guess, but today, nearly three years after the establishment of the standards, only Toyota is voluntarily abiding by and reporting towing capacity of its full-size trucks.

Read more: Stalemate: J2807 Truck Towing Standard - Truck Trend News

It is important to note that all the Jazz is about the major manufacturers "fibbing" about their GVWR numbers UP; not down.

The big push is to juggle the test parameters to make their pickup seem to be able to pull MORE weight than the competition.
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:12 AM   #45
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What say you?
A more glaring example of this issue might be Chrysler's maneuver in 2010 re the 1500 Rams with max tow capacity. With no mechanical or structural changes to the 2010 trucks from 2009 (the first year for the 4th Gen Ram), the towing capacity was increased by 1500 lbs. Interestingly, Chrysler did not retroactively adjust the towing capacity of the 2009 fleet even after admitting that there were no structural differences between the 2009 and 2010 trucks.

Things that make you go hmmm....
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:49 AM   #46
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Criteria is just that and human factor applied to criteria is different every time any situation is addressed....
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:52 AM   #47
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Criteria is just that and human factor applied to criteria is different every time any situation is addressed....
Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (Finagle's version) in a nutshell.

The act of observing the data; changes the data to suit the observer's intended outcome.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:21 AM   #48
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Towing capacities from the big three north American manufacturers are pick from sky hooks, there is some trial and error testing done but none of it is definitive, that is why they are so wary of signing on to the SAE J2807 standard because there would need to be actual figures to back up their claims.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:59 AM   #49
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Towing capacities from the big three north American manufacturers are pick from sky hooks, there is some trial and error testing done but none of it is definitive, that is why they are so wary of signing on to the SAE J2807 standard because there would need to be actual figures to back up their claims.
I think most of us would agree with this statement. Which is part of the reason it blows my mind that so many people put so much faith in that number. The simple fact is that safety when towing is a slow transition from white to black, with a very wide grey area. One of the problems I have with the standard is that it applies very rigorous towing parameters, when not everyone will tow in those conditions. If I live in a flat area and am looking for a truck to do local towing on my farm, for example, why do I need enough engine to drag a given load up a steep incline at a certain speed and so on? Once again, it would serve the purpose of allowing one to compare apples to apples, but in no way would it give a true indication of safe towing limits for all conditions.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:04 AM   #50
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A more glaring example of this issue might be Chrysler's maneuver in 2010 re the 1500 Rams with max tow capacity. With no mechanical or structural changes to the 2010 trucks from 2009 (the first year for the 4th Gen Ram), the towing capacity was increased by 1500 lbs. Interestingly, Chrysler did not retroactively adjust the towing capacity of the 2009 fleet even after admitting that there were no structural differences between the 2009 and 2010 trucks.

Things that make you go hmmm....
This is exactly my point. But you are a menace to society if you exceed the towing capacity of the 09.
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