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Old 11-18-2013, 09:56 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
This is exactly my point. But you are a menace to society if you exceed the towing capacity of the 09.

Or at the very least, a menace to the number crunching weight police on this forum.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:19 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
2013 Ford F150 with tow package gives a GVWR of 7200#. Add the max trailer tow package and GVWR goes to 7700#. There is NOTHING on the truck that affects payload capacity.
To the best of my knowledge, this isn't correct. I called Ford when I ordered the Max Tow on my FX4. I questioned the factors that the allowed more payload and tow capacity. While GVW goes up 500 lbs, payload only goes up 350 lbs. So, there is another 150 lbs in the truck. They assured me that there are differences.

According to Ford, here are the differences that account for different ratings:
1) Extra cooling radiator (yes, I know others show HD but this is even bigger)
2) HD bushings in the front suspension for great loader capacity on the front
3) HD rear leaf springs compared to the 7200 GVW models
4) A slightly higher capacity rear axle
5) A heavier hitch and heavier mounting to the truck
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:30 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by acadianbob View Post
To the best of my knowledge, this isn't correct. I called Ford when I ordered the Max Tow on my FX4. I questioned the factors that the allowed more payload and tow capacity. While GVW goes up 500 lbs, payload only goes up 350 lbs. So, there is another 150 lbs in the truck. They assured me that there are differences.

According to Ford, here are the differences that account for different ratings:
1) Extra cooling radiator (yes, I know others show HD but this is even bigger)
2) HD bushings in the front suspension for great loader capacity on the front
3) HD rear leaf springs compared to the 7200 GVW models
4) A slightly higher capacity rear axle
5) A heavier hitch and heavier mounting to the truck
Not saying it's inaccurate, but yours if the first of a dozen or so accounts from people analyzing them (and contacting Ford and dealer service departments) that were advised of #2,3, and 4. I am in no way saying your info isn't accurate, but I am very suspicious of the changes you mention because of how cheap the package is. It would be quite costly for Ford to tool up to make different springs, bushings, axles, etc. and then charge only $500 for the package. The mirrors alone cost almost that much when purchased separately. And why wouldn't Ford mention any of these beefier components in their lit like they do with the HD Payload package? Who did you talk to at Ford? I'd like to discuss with them too, if you have contact information available.

Edit: I'll also add that 2,3, and 4 are the only in the list that affect payload. The axle rating on all of the trucks is already substantially higher than the GVWR, so I don't see why you'd need to increase it's listed capacity to up GVWR. So even if this info is accurate, I should technically be able to add airbags and heavier bushings (not even sure what this would be unless they use a polyurethane like Prothane as opposed to rubber bushing??) and have the payload of a MaxTow.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:47 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
This is exactly my point. But you are a menace to society if you exceed the towing capacity of the 09.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugged Brown View Post
Or at the very least, a menace to the number crunching weight police on this forum.
Might I remind everyone that we moderators would like to see this thread stay open as much as the next guy. This won't happen if there is personal sniping (including the way that most use the term "weight police" in a derogatory manner) or even name calling (things have been edited out of posts with reminders sent to folks). As I posted before:
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Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
It's not us that shut things down- we just click the button. It's the posts, deletes and edits that have to happen that cause us to click it. You all are in control of your destiny.

If everyone keeps it above the belt without snide comments or personal sniping or venturing off into restricted topics, the thread could stay open indefinitely. Unfortunately, history has shown us that this seems to be a topic that people get "all riled up" over and emotions flare and we ultimately are forced to click the button.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:17 AM   #55
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Here is the info from the Ford order guide:

Originally Posted by Ford Order Guide[/url
��MAX TRAILER TOW PACKAGE – POWER MIRROR (60P)
Availability:
• Optional on XL Regular and SuperCab, XLT and FX2/FX4
Not Available with:
• 126" wheelbase
• Max Trailer Tow Package (60M)
• XLT SuperCab 145" wheelbase with P235/75R17 BSW A/T (T7B),
L245/75R17E BSW A/T (T7E) or P255/65R17 OWL A/S (T73)
• XLT SuperCrew with P255/65R17 OWL A/S (T73) or L245/75R17E
BSW A/T (T7E)
Requires:
• 3.5L EcoBoost™ Engine (99T)
• 3.73 LS rear-axle ratio (XL, XLT and FX2)
• 3.73 electronic-locking differential axle (XLT w/Off-Road Pkg. – 55A and
FX4)
• XL requires Fog Lamps (595), XL Décor Group (86D) and Power Equipment Group (85A)
• XL and XLT Regular Cab requires Heavy-Duty Payload Pkg. (627)
Includes:
• Upgraded rear bumper
• Class IV trailer hitch receiver
• 7-pin wiring harness
• Upgraded radiator
• Auxiliary transmission oil cooler
• Trailer Brake Control
• SelectShift Transmission
• Side Mirrors, black manual telescoping trailer tow w/power glass
(includes heat, turn signal & puddle lamps)
• Memory feature included on side mirrors when order with FX Luxury
Package (55F)

This is all listed in the 302A package I have except for the mirrors and bumper. I added the mirrors. Oh, but I have 3.55 instead of 3.73.

I will also add- but this is somewhat speculation- that it is possible the 150 pound difference is because the book is base model numbers and doesn't take into account options. Therefore, the book assumes you have the hitch, aux trans cooler, etc. when you get the max tow and automatically deducts for them. But they are options without max tow, and are therefore NOT included in the capacities listed in the book on non MaxTow vehicles.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:22 PM   #56
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So this has been an interesting thread. I am not taking any position. The analytical part of me just wants to fine the “root solution”.
So if the OP was to find a same year Max Tow and a same year non max tow in basically the same configuration (FX4, Screw, etc.) couldn’t you go to Ford Parts online, enter the VIN, and try to order those parts they think are different? I assume Ford would have different part # if a part has different specs tolerance for the same item.
(You can search the online car searches to get VIN or got to a local ford dealer and write them down.)
Or maybe this doesn’t prove anything either… nor does it change the “claim” or the law.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:48 PM   #57
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...nor does it change the “claim” or the law.
What law?
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Old 11-18-2013, 01:15 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by buckeyefan View Post
So this has been an interesting thread. I am not taking any position. The analytical part of me just wants to fine the “root solution”.
So if the OP was to find a same year Max Tow and a same year non max tow in basically the same configuration (FX4, Screw, etc.) couldn’t you go to Ford Parts online, enter the VIN, and try to order those parts they think are different? I assume Ford would have different part # if a part has different specs tolerance for the same item.
(You can search the online car searches to get VIN or got to a local ford dealer and write them down.)
Or maybe this doesn’t prove anything either… nor does it change the “claim” or the law.
I would think so. I did do an Ebay search for 2013 F150 rear springs and got only 2 different parts. I posed a question to the seller about the difference. I do know that the Max Payload has different springs- so I'm leaning toward the springs being the same on the Max Tow as the regular Tow. It is entirely possible one of the springs isn't listed, though.
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:36 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
This is exactly my point. But you are a menace to society if you exceed the towing capacity of the 09.
It gets better...

The 1500 lb figure quoted was referenced by auto journalists in 2010 - it was an average. In our case, the 2010 Ram with 20-inch wheels and 3.92 gears picked up 2500 lbs of towing capacity over our similarly equipped 2009 model. I put the question to Chrysler re the vast difference between the 09 and the 10 but got little more than a line about reassessment of the truck's towing capacity for 2010 i.e., if you want more tow capacity in the half-ton, but a new truck... ROFL.

According to the 2009 specs, we're towing too much. Roger that - 10-4. Are we in reality a menace? Not even close. Our real world experience (18,000 km) has been that the truck is more than capable of safely tugging our TT. And... we're having a heck of of a lot fun doing so!

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Old 11-19-2013, 08:57 AM   #60
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It gets better...

The 1500 lb figure quoted was referenced by auto journalists in 2010 - it was an average. In our case, the 2010 Ram with 20-inch wheels and 3.92 gears picked up 2500 lbs of towing capacity over our similarly equipped 2009 model. I put the question to Chrysler re the vast difference between the 09 and the 10 but got little more than a line about reassessment of the truck's towing capacity for 2010 i.e., if you want more tow capacity in the half-ton, but a new truck... ROFL.

According to the 2009 specs, we're towing too much. Roger that - 10-4. Are we in reality a menace? Not even close. Our real world experience (18,000 km) has been that the truck is more than capable of safely tugging our TT. And... we're having a heck of of a lot fun doing so!

Wow. That is a crazy jump- 7400 to 9900 towing capacity. I love it! They "reassessed"!!!!

This should be sobering evidence to those that claim there are strict engineering principles applied to determine the capacities. The "weakest link", whatever that might be, didn't change, but the rating did. Either there is a huge safety margin figured in and Dodge decided to "use" some of that, or there is something else being used to determine capacities- marketing, warranty, legal, ???? I think it is probably a combination of all of those. I will also point out that I still have not been able to find any state law about exceeding GVWR for most states(I have seen mention of 1 state that has a law indicating GVWR cannot be exceeded by more than 1000 pounds). How can the state enforce a law that is based on an arbitrarily determined number provided by a manufacturer? That would be like allowing each car manufacturer determine the speed limit for their own cars. I just don't see how it would be possible.
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