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Old 11-20-2013, 02:39 PM   #61
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not every thing is as seems, i have worked for a ford dealer for 28 years and am currently service manager for ford dealer. you refered to a 2013 f150 fx4 so i pulled up a parts listing on a 2013 f150 fx4 4x4 3.5 eco boost. there are 5 differant springs for the truck the only way to tell what you have is to crawl under and look for the codes. they are cl34a , cl34d ,cl34e ,cl34j ,cl34p. there are 3 differant axels a 9.75 with out hd pay load , 9.75 with electronic locker with hd , 9.75 with hd payload.and a variety of shocks depending on wheel base and with hd payload or without hd payload. not to mention larger brakes on the hd payload model and differant steering ratio and even the engine and transmission calibrations are differant. and that is the short list .the only way to know what your vehicle has is to have a dealer run the vin # and get a hvbom ( historical vehicle bill of materials ) to really tell what you have. even the fornt hub bearings are differant between the two with or without hd payload. hope this helps with your question.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:58 PM   #62
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Well now that a Ford guy has chimed un and confirmed the same thing as what I said about Gm trucks, it seems that THERE IS NOTHING MAGICAL about where the gvrw numbers come from.

I just get tired of the guys who say "the only difference between (fill in the blank ) and (fill in the blank) is this one thing" or "a helper spring". Obviously this thread should shoot that theory way out of the water.

- I guess the ops question is answered now!
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Old 11-20-2013, 03:37 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
I think the answer is "Good point. Doesn't make any sense. I don't know." Some will also likely say "Doesn't matter. It is what it is and if you wanna be legal you better follow it." (I've never liked someone declaring something IS without a reason.) But I'd like to know if anyone can come to any other conclusion regarding this:

2013 Ford F150 with tow package gives a GVWR of 7200#. Add the max trailer tow package and GVWR goes to 7700#. There is NOTHING on the truck that affects payload capacity. You get tow mirrors and brake controller for sure, but both are easily optioned to the truck and have nothing to do with payload. There are some that claim slightly better trans cooler and slightly different steering ratio. Also I believe that the gear ratio goes to 3.73, which is already the case on many trucks, specifically the FX4's. None of these things has anything to do with payload. It is perfectly clear that GVWR is NOT anything determined from an engineering standpoint. Same axles, same springs and shocks, same brakes, same frame. As far as I am concerned it is a marketing and liability issue. Has little to do with the safety or capability, otherwise you couldn't just slap some mirrors on a truck (TBC comes in many other packages) and raise the GVWR by 500 lbs.

For clarification: Some people confuse the max trailer tow with the max payload. Two different animals- max payload has a different axle, springs, wheels, tires, etc.

What say you?
Ford has a confusing myrid of packages that you can put on the truck - it took us FOREVER to understand it and get Ford to comit to the point we are at (which is basically we have a 5er with a MAX weight of 10.5K - what do we need to tow it?) (We sandbagged them, BTW - we are only towing a MAX of9.6K and currently scale at 9K even loaded out

Turned out to be: F150/ 3.5L EcoBoost/Max Trailer Tow Package/HD Trailer Tow Package/3.73 axel/6 1/2' box got us a MAX loaded trailer weight of 11,300 lbs with a GCWR of 17,100 LBS

Here is the table:
http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/g...rv&tt_f150.pdf

Caveat: you will never ever see this kind of a build on a stock lot (unless you are buyiung my used Rig in a few years Your local Ford dealer - fleet services rep - will be happy to build one out for you (and BTW I got all my USAA discounts and customer cash as well - so do NOT let a dealer BS you!) Took about 5 weeks to deliver (plant shut down for 4th of July or it would have been a even 4 weeks).

We have been out on 3 trips - longest was 400 mi one way and have had NO problems whatsoever with towing, sway, stopping (MOST important!) or any overly heaving loading on the hitch. Acceleration is baby-butt smooth and if I am not careful on a open road I can be doing 70 before I know it...up a slight grade even!

I have panic tested the rig in a huge empty paved lot - accelerated to 10, 20 , 30 MPH and slammed on the brakes - no fishtail, no lockup, just smooth braking - the Ford anti-sway, heavy duty braking system was flawless.
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:27 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by sportsman View Post
not every thing is as seems, i have worked for a ford dealer for 28 years and am currently service manager for ford dealer. you refered to a 2013 f150 fx4 so i pulled up a parts listing on a 2013 f150 fx4 4x4 3.5 eco boost. there are 5 differant springs for the truck the only way to tell what you have is to crawl under and look for the codes. they are cl34a , cl34d ,cl34e ,cl34j ,cl34p. there are 3 differant axels a 9.75 with out hd pay load , 9.75 with electronic locker with hd , 9.75 with hd payload.and a variety of shocks depending on wheel base and with hd payload or without hd payload. not to mention larger brakes on the hd payload model and differant steering ratio and even the engine and transmission calibrations are differant. and that is the short list .the only way to know what your vehicle has is to have a dealer run the vin # and get a hvbom ( historical vehicle bill of materials ) to really tell what you have. even the fornt hub bearings are differant between the two with or without hd payload. hope this helps with your question.
Great insider info...thanks for sharing!!!
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:28 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
Well now that a Ford guy has chimed un and confirmed the same thing as what I said about Gm trucks, it seems that THERE IS NOTHING MAGICAL about where the gvrw numbers come from.

I just get tired of the guys who say "the only difference between (fill in the blank ) and (fill in the blank) is this one thing" or "a helper spring". Obviously this thread should shoot that theory way out of the water.

- I guess the ops question is answered now!
X2!
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:53 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob View Post
Ford has a confusing myrid of packages that you can put on the truck - it took us FOREVER to understand it and get Ford to comit to the point we are at (which is basically we have a 5er with a MAX weight of 10.5K - what do we need to tow it?) (We sandbagged them, BTW - we are only towing a MAX of9.6K and currently scale at 9K even loaded out Turned out to be: F150/ 3.5L EcoBoost/Max Trailer Tow Package/HD Trailer Tow Package/3.73 axel/6 1/2' box got us a MAX loaded trailer weight of 11,300 lbs with a GCWR of 17,100 LBS Here is the table: http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/g...rv&tt_f150.pdf Caveat: you will never ever see this kind of a build on a stock lot (unless you are buyiung my used Rig in a few years Your local Ford dealer - fleet services rep - will be happy to build one out for you (and BTW I got all my USAA discounts and customer cash as well - so do NOT let a dealer BS you!) Took about 5 weeks to deliver (plant shut down for 4th of July or it would have been a even 4 weeks). We have been out on 3 trips - longest was 400 mi one way and have had NO problems whatsoever with towing, sway, stopping (MOST important!) or any overly heaving loading on the hitch. Acceleration is baby-butt smooth and if I am not careful on a open road I can be doing 70 before I know it...up a slight grade even! I have panic tested the rig in a huge empty paved lot - accelerated to 10, 20 , 30 MPH and slammed on the brakes - no fishtail, no lockup, just smooth braking - the Ford anti-sway, heavy duty braking system was flawless.
actually, I have located one...in the state of texas...
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Old 11-20-2013, 08:16 PM   #67
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1/2" difference is easily seen, you sure don't need a micrometer to see the difference.
them duramax silverados have MONSTER U-joints! huh ... wonder why that is ?
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:47 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by sportsman View Post
not every thing is as seems, i have worked for a ford dealer for 28 years and am currently service manager for ford dealer. you refered to a 2013 f150 fx4 so i pulled up a parts listing on a 2013 f150 fx4 4x4 3.5 eco boost. there are 5 differant springs for the truck the only way to tell what you have is to crawl under and look for the codes. they are cl34a , cl34d ,cl34e ,cl34j ,cl34p. there are 3 differant axels a 9.75 with out hd pay load , 9.75 with electronic locker with hd , 9.75 with hd payload.and a variety of shocks depending on wheel base and with hd payload or without hd payload. not to mention larger brakes on the hd payload model and differant steering ratio and even the engine and transmission calibrations are differant. and that is the short list .the only way to know what your vehicle has is to have a dealer run the vin # and get a hvbom ( historical vehicle bill of materials ) to really tell what you have. even the fornt hub bearings are differant between the two with or without hd payload. hope this helps with your question.
I am well aware of all of the differences involved with HD PAYLOAD. That's not what the question is about. Ford clearly spells out the differences in all of those items in it's lit. As for MAX TOW, the differences Ford lists have NOTHING to do with payload. If you have proof of different springs being offered between two identical trucks with no changes made besides MAX TOW, then I'm all ears.
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:52 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
Well now that a Ford guy has chimed un and confirmed the same thing as what I said about Gm trucks, it seems that THERE IS NOTHING MAGICAL about where the gvrw numbers come from.

I just get tired of the guys who say "the only difference between (fill in the blank ) and (fill in the blank) is this one thing" or "a helper spring". Obviously this thread should shoot that theory way out of the water.

- I guess the ops question is answered now!
Not quite. If you'll read the post you are referring to again, you'll notice his entire discussion is about HD PAYLOAD. Everyone knows the difference in the HD PAYLOAD. My question is about increased GVWR with MAX TOW. Therefore, the theory still stands. Or at least the mystery.
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:57 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob View Post

Caveat: you will never ever see this kind of a build on a stock lot (unless you are buyiung my used Rig in a few years Your local Ford dealer - fleet services rep - will be happy to build one out for you (and BTW I got all my USAA discounts and customer cash as well - so do NOT let a dealer BS you!) Took about 5 weeks to deliver (plant shut down for 4th of July or it would have been a even 4 weeks).

That is true unless you are buying at the end of a model year. Incentives are very competitive then, and the massive discounts are on the outgoing years inventory. If you order, you have to order the next year model that is in production. This can be several thousand dollars. Also, if trading you often won't get a quote on EXACTLY what they'll give for your trade. Without even taking into account the thousands in price difference because of lost incentives and higher price with new model year, I wasn't willing to put myself in the position of the dealer devaluing my trade when the truck arrived.
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