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11-22-2013, 09:16 AM
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#81
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Camper Less Camping
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NW
Posts: 3,642
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About where this topic has landed after reading all the post between conspiracy theory folks and guys who actually work in/around the Ford parts business.
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2013 Sabre 32RCTS-6 (sold)
Family of 4 whose always on the GEAUX!
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11-22-2013, 09:21 AM
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#82
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: X
Posts: 2,781
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Nice summary Cajun!
You know what they say: You can lead a ________ to water but you can't make him drink.
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11-22-2013, 09:41 AM
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#83
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Always Learning
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryD0706
Nice summary Cajun! You know what they say: You can lead a ________ to water but you can't make him drink.
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Truthfully, I think that applies to both sides and frankly, it's what bothers me most about these discussions - each side generally comes into these discussions with preconceived notions that they have the answer and that their answer is right. We write our posts as "this is THE word and no one can possibly refute it", but the trick is - since the other side also feels they're right, they then post a retort that simply cannot be argued with and must be right. And so on and so forth.
I do thank everyone for staying mostly civil and allowing this thread to live. I understand that it's annoying and frustrating wearing the kid gloves that these discussions require and I appreciate you all trying to do so.
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Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
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11-22-2013, 10:59 AM
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#84
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ependydad
Truthfully, I think that applies to both sides and frankly, it's what bothers me most about these discussions - each side generally comes into these discussions with preconceived notions that they have the answer and that their answer is right. We write our posts as "this is THE word and no one can possibly refute it", but the trick is - since the other side also feels they're right, they then post a retort that simply cannot be argued with and must be right. And so on and so forth.
I do thank everyone for staying mostly civil and allowing this thread to live. I understand that it's annoying and frustrating wearing the kid gloves that these discussions require and I appreciate you all trying to do so.
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Lot's of the pot calling the kettle black type stuff going on in these threads from both sides, huh? All I know is that no one has been able to give a straight answer. I tend to believe, for various reasons, that the GVWR numbers are somewhat "mystical". While others tend to believe they are very "concrete". I'm not saying there isn't some structural engineering consideration going on- but I think other factors are at play. I would love for someone like these purported parts guys to simply say: "Here is the part number for the Max Tow spring. It is rated at xxxx pounds. Here is the part number for the regular spring. It is only rated at xxxx pounds." Not sure why they can't do this if that's the case. I understand that Ford part numbers vary somewhat- but wouldn't all Max Tow springs be rated the same? Just give me any part number that is Max Tow specific. Regardless of the ideological accusations being hurled my way, I would LOVE to know EXACTLY what the differences are, if any. I am seeking information and the truth, and I refuse to just blindly accept the "THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BLAH BLAH BLAH" answers with no evidence to support it.
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11-22-2013, 11:18 AM
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#85
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Always Learning
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman_stx
I am seeking information and the truth, and I refuse to just blindly accept the "THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BLAH BLAH BLAH" answers with no evidence to support it.
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Until you're able to corner the group of folks at Ford (engineers, marketers and lawyers) who were involved in the declaration of GVWRs, you're not going to get the evidence that you want.
You're the one who wants the details, so I'm not sure why you would put the onus on the parts guys to prove you wrong. I would think that you want to prove yourself right; not to have someone prove you wrong. If you want proved right, I think it would be up to you to do the leg work to find 2 identical trucks and then work with someone in the know to go part-by-part to find the exact differences.
In fact, I think until either of the 2 things above happen- these general "concept" posts are going to be lobbed back and forth and neither side is going to take an iota of an inch towards the other side's opinion. (shrugs)
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
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11-22-2013, 11:27 AM
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#86
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Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ependydad
Until you're able to corner the group of folks at Ford (engineers, marketers and lawyers) who were involved in the declaration of GVWRs, you're not going to get the evidence that you want.
You're the one who wants the details, so I'm not sure why you would put the onus on the parts guys to prove you wrong. I would think that you want to prove yourself right; not to have someone prove you wrong. If you want proved right, I think it would be up to you to do the leg work to find 2 identical trucks and then work with someone in the know to go part-by-part to find the exact differences.
In fact, I think until either of the 2 things above happen- these general "concept" posts are going to be lobbed back and forth and neither side is going to take an iota of an inch towards the other side's opinion. (shrugs)
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The parts guys can give the actual part no.s and specs. You can't see it from looking under 2 trucks what springs, etc are installed. Like I've said numerous times, the stickers are put there by lawyers, not engineers.
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11-22-2013, 11:34 AM
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#87
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Always Learning
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot
The parts guys can give the actual part no.s and specs. You can't see it from looking under 2 trucks what springs, etc are installed. Like I've said numerous times, the stickers are put there by lawyers, not engineers.
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Honestly, I think it's a combination that I stated - lawyers, marketers and engineers. The engineers are going to publish solid data supporting their numbers. The marketers are going to want to publish as high of a number as possible. And the lawyers are going to want to publish as low of a number as possible.
Given the references to "magical tow dust" and things like the Chrysler from 2009 or whatever it was that was earlier mentioned- I think everyone has a hand in the numbers.
I just don't quite understand what we're trying to prove or who we're trying convince. If we're trying to convince me to tow over specs, it's not going to happen. I've made my decisions. If we're trying convince you to tow under ratings, that too isn't going to happen.
If dustman wants definitive proof, then I think dustman should be doing the legwork to make a case based on actual data from Ford's people who are in the know. Not throwing a volley out there saying, "here's some anecdotal evidence that must be right- prove me wrong."
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
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11-22-2013, 11:39 AM
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#88
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Whereever our Berkshire is Parked!
Posts: 7,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion
actually, I have located one...in the state of texas...
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LOL I am impressed Orion!
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Bob & Anne-Marie [BamaBob & 6 Actual]
| 2017 Berkshire XLT 43A with Ultrasteer Tag | Blue Ox Avail + KarGard II |
| SMI AF-1 Air Brake | 2016 Jeep Cherokee Overland TOAD | Pedego Bikes |
Nights Camped: 2013 - 24 • 2014 - 42 • 2015 - 56 • Jul 2016 - Fulltime •
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11-22-2013, 11:40 AM
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#89
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Engineer of Crazy Train
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tiverton, RI
Posts: 1,585
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All i have to say is magic towing dust.
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TV - 2015 Ram Truck EcoDiesel
TV - 2006 Jeep Liberty Turbo Diesel (Retired to Daily Driver)
TT - 2015 Rockwood Roo 183 (SOLD due to 2 years off work)
Locomotive Engineer
Nights Camping --- 2015 - 19 Camped | Winterized -- 2014 - 18
Come read my Camping Blogs
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11-22-2013, 11:43 AM
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#90
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Whereever our Berkshire is Parked!
Posts: 7,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun Po-Boy
Attachment 42916
About where this topic has landed after reading all the post between conspiracy theory folks and guys who actually work in/around the Ford parts business.
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GREAT Graphic Cajun!! -- and so true! Bottom line for me is:
5er weighs in at 8.5K ready to camp
F150 HD Tow/HD pkg tows it like a dream
I am happy
DW is happy
Life is good
__________________
Bob & Anne-Marie [BamaBob & 6 Actual]
| 2017 Berkshire XLT 43A with Ultrasteer Tag | Blue Ox Avail + KarGard II |
| SMI AF-1 Air Brake | 2016 Jeep Cherokee Overland TOAD | Pedego Bikes |
Nights Camped: 2013 - 24 • 2014 - 42 • 2015 - 56 • Jul 2016 - Fulltime •
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11-22-2013, 12:54 PM
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#91
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ependydad
If you want proved right, I think it would be up to you to do the leg work to find 2 identical trucks and then work with someone in the know to go part-by-part to find the exact differences.
(shrugs)
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That involves dealers doing searches and traveling-likely- hundreds of miles to find 2 identical trucks except for Max Tow. Doesn't it seem easier for a parts guy(which some members claim to be) to pull up the springs? If the Max Tow has a different spring I can't imagine it would be hard to find it.
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11-22-2013, 01:00 PM
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#92
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,269
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I have been following this discussion and have been appalled by the posts by proponents on each side of this issue. While I fall firmly on the "try to stay under the limits" side, I understand not everyone feels this way.
I also know that no amount of discussion will convince anyone to change sides.
So, with no small sigh of relief, and in the interest of keeping the peace.
Closed.
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Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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