Weight your Rig You maybe Surprized

[Tonkatoy77]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Being found "NEGLIGENT" is a legal term.

Here is where the term legal comes into play... I quote from the above link. "Negligent towing could also leave you open to criminal charges and your insurance claim being denied."

I bet you my last paycheck insurance will still cover you. If I was drunk, which is negligent, and I crashed my truck, I am still covered.


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[B and B]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

When I weight my 3/4 ton with me and the hitch in it weight right at 8,000 lbs so with a 10000 lbs GVWR my CCC was 2000 lbs.

When I weight my 1 ton with me and hitch in it weight right at 8200 lbs so a 10000 GVWR my CCC would of been 1800lbs and I would of been over weight by 200 more pounds in my 1 ton. What i did gain was update axles (7180 instead of 6200) and updated tires. Since the option was checked giving me 11,500 GVWR i ended with 3300 CCC as as far as i can see withing limits. NUMBERS!?!?

Check further on Axles. I believe many threads here talk about F 250 and F 350 axles being the same. The only difference is a riser block on the rear axle.
I have a rare upgrade many don't have, truck camper. This adds 2 leafs on the front and at least 1 leaf possibly 2 on the back. As well a overload spring and a rear sway bar. Due to derating of the truck to meet licensing requirements here the equipment and capability is the same, just the lawyer sticker is different.

Getting back to your original post.

Weigh your Rig- Agree yes for sure.

[Cool Canuck]

Originally Posted by B and B

Check further on Axles. I believe many threads here talk about F 250 and F 350 axles being the same. The only difference is a riser block on the rear axle..

While that was true for the 2001 7.3 Fords and others of that generation, It is not true for the newer Fords.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

I'm still trying to grasp how anyone can add weight behind an axle and gain weight on the pin. Defies the laws of physics. With that logic, I could get on a teeter tooter with you with equal lengths from the pivot.

Originally Posted by Tonkatoy77

Somehow it can happen. Looking at this picture, if I take the 3 bales off of the back of the lead trailer, it will lighten up the weight on my drive tires.



Same with this setup. If I take a unit of 8' 2x4's off of the back of the trailer, by the rear doors, it will also take weight off of the drive axles.

I agree up to a point.

OC's statement referred to weight behind the axles, not over the axles. If you take off weight directly inline with an axle, then there should be no weight change at the pin....the entire weight reduction should be at the axle. If you take off weight in front of a trailer axle, then you will loose pin weight. Take weight off behind the axle, and you will gain weight at the pin.

That applies if the axles are independently sprung. Not quite sure where the pivot axis would be on an equalizing system.

[Tonkatoy77]

Originally Posted by MtnGuy

If you take off weight directly inline with an axle, then there should be no weight change at the pin....the entire weight reduction should be at the axle.

That is where you are not correct. Take another look at the green truck. The trailer is a 4 axle. If I take off 5000 lbs of lumber directly over the rear axle on the trailer, I lose about 100 lbs on the drive axles. I know it doesn't sound right, but it is exactly what happens. I go across scales 100's of times a year, it is funny watching what can change weight distribution. One time I was overweight on the drive axles of the hay truck by 2000 lbs. all we did is shift the whole load back 6" on the lead trailer and it made me 500 lbs light on the drives. You couldn't even tell we did anything different.


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[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by MtnGuy

...That applies if the axles are independently sprung. Not quite sure where the pivot axis would be on an equalizing system.

Pivot point is the centerline of the equalizer pivot and on tandem axle torsions it is the centerline between the axles.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Tonkatoy77

I bet you my last paycheck insurance will still cover you. If I was drunk, which is negligent, and I crashed my truck, I am still covered.


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If you look at they userid of cwswine that stands for Classic Wine and Spirits and yes I own a liquor store. I have first hand knowledge of people getting in accidents will above the legal limit. The insurance company pays then the insurance company will try to sue the drunk and try’s to prove he was negligent and recoup all or part of what they paid out in claims and all or part of legal cost. It would be up to the judge what the insurance company recoups.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by B and B

Check further on Axles. I believe many threads here talk about F 250 and F 350 axles being the same. The only difference is a riser block on the rear axle.
I have a rare upgrade many don't have, truck camper. This adds 2 leafs on the front and at least 1 leaf possibly 2 on the back. As well a overload spring and a rear sway bar. Due to derating of the truck to meet licensing requirements here the equipment and capability is the same, just the lawyer sticker is different.

Getting back to your original post.

Weigh your Rig- Agree yes for sure.

What you call the lawyer sticker is determined by the factory weighing the truck and taking the weight and subtracting if from the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR the max you truck can weight to meet manufacture specs). Adding springs adds weight that would take away from the CCC of the truck. If you dealer told you that camper option adds CCC he really saying is that the option made the truck lighter or it increased the GVWR as listed on the title.
The number on you “Lawyer Sticker” is a moving number. My yellow sticker on my ¾ ton was 2475. I added a bed mat, 5th wheel hitch, warning triangles, first aid kit, second GPS, small tool bag and some misc stuff including me (240lbs) and my CCC went to just under 2,000 lbs. That was determined by going to the scales and by the time I got back home my CCC had change since I had less fuel. My 1 ton went from 3744 to 3240 I guess that the B & W Companion with the under bed adapter weight more than my last hitch.

The first time I saw you post that the camper option increased you CCC above the “Lawyer Sticker” I called the dealer I purchase my truck from and he wasn’t sure. He called the multi state trainer that trains salesman and he also said if didn’t raise the GVWR as listed on your title/truck it didn’t raise the CCC.
On my 1 ton I had a ZERO cost option of going from a 10,000 GVWR to an 11,500 GVWR, which make the rating suspect. The difference to me is that I’m now within manufacture specs and I have a 12M on license plates instead of 10M and cost me more to register my truck and CYA.

[CWSWine]

I talk to a retire Judge of 30 years and this is what he said. Every case that comes in from of Judge he takes notes during the trial and after the trial he fills out work sheet to assign percentage of fault that include things like; Was he speeding – driving faster the conditions allow – bald tires – etc. He said that every standard published worksheet he has seen has “Was the Vehicle Operating Within Manufacture Specs”. Operation outside the specs could be as simple as 7 people in car that the manufacture specs states it's 5-passenger vehicle. He also said that he had hundreds of cases over his 30 years that operation outside the manufacture spec was a percentage of the over all ruling but never the sole reason. Those worksheets are never released unless the lawyer makes a written request; to see them. The worksheets and the personnel handwritten notes become part judges personnel file incase there is an appeal to refresh his memory. According to him every case even if only cars were involved the operation within manufacture specs could affect the assignment of liability and overall award.



So believe what you want to believe and I will believe what I do. I hope either on of us has to find out in court who is right or wrong.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by Tonkatoy77

Take another look at the green truck. The trailer is a 4 axle. If I take off 5000 lbs of lumber directly over the rear axle on the trailer, I lose about 100 lbs on the drive axles. I know it doesn't sound right, but it is exactly what happens.

I can kinda understand how that is happening, but I gotta do some ciphering with that info.

Now my head hurts....working my brain too hard.

[Oaklevel]

I understand not wanting to run grossly overly over weight but what I do not understand is why so many want to base their weights on dry weight or dry hitch weight??? Yes it is a starting point but that is all it is and only when it leaves the factory with no propane or dealer added options. To me watching gross weight is more important. Also that is what I am required to tag the trailer .............

THs are granted a different breed but my dry weight is advertised at for my year at 9,200, and the dry pin weight at 1766 lbs.. My actual dry weight with options was yellow sticker 9688lbs ............. If I based my truck on dry weight I would be in serious trouble............ the gross weight of the trailer is 14500.

On the scales the camper was about 13500 making a 20% pin weight around 2700.... dry listed 1766 big difference. I doubt 20% is true for this trailer but it can vary depending on the weight distribution at the time.............. but never worried about it. But that is another story........

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

I understand not wanting to run grossly overly over weight but what I do not understand is why so many want to base their weights on dry weight or dry hitch weight???

I understand what you are saying but this was my thought process. If the dry weight was 10,000 lbs and the dry pin weight was 20% of that number. If I added 1500 lbs of cargo above dry weight and it added 20% to 25% of that went to pin weight my pin weight would be 2200 or max of 2500. What happened I added 1070 and my pin weight went to 2780 and that not loaded to go camping. My thought process was flawed hence the title Weigh your RV you might be surprised.

Then people take their CCC off the yellow tag on the truck and match that to estimated pin weight of the RV. The CCC of truck yellow tag could be couple hundred pounds to as 800 lbs or more two high if the truck is loaded ready to go camping. That could case a gross over weigh condition.

[Tonkatoy77]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

I understand not wanting to run grossly overly over weight but what I do not understand is why so many want to base their weights on dry weight or dry hitch weight??? Yes it is a starting point but that is all it is and only when it leaves the factory with no propane or dealer added options. To me watching gross weight is more important. Also that is what I am required to tag the trailer .............

THs are granted a different breed but my dry weight is advertised at for my year at 9,200, and the dry pin weight at 1766 lbs.. My actual dry weight with options was yellow sticker 9688lbs ............. If I based my truck on dry weight I would be in serious trouble............ the gross weight of the trailer is 14500.

On the scales the camper was about 13500 making a 20% pin weight around 2700.... dry listed 1766 big difference. I doubt 20% is true for this trailer but it can vary depending on the weight distribution at the time.............. but never worried about it. But that is another story........

So you run with 3800 lbs of gear in your trailer? DAMN!!! Do you live in it? I have two toddlers, and don't think I would ever take that much stuff camping.

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by Tonkatoy77

So you run with 3800 lbs of gear in your trailer? DAMN!!! Do you live in it? I have two toddlers, and don't think I would ever take that much stuff camping.

Yep...... Golf Car & extra (apt / dorm size) Frig. small compressor in toy room ...... for starters. The garage its self is rated to carry 2500 lbs...... Thats before the normal camping gear. Toyhaulers carry such a variety of added weight & configurations that can get one in trouble quickly if not careful about weights....... won't even start on extras the DW brings for the GS.