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Old 06-24-2015, 11:28 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Explain why there are hundreds of lawyers that advertise for cases with RV were in a accidents and could be over weight as one of the reasons. Google "lawyers over weight RV" and you see what I'm saying. Just because you or me have not heard one doesn't make not true.
Well, I'm on page five of doing a Google search of "lawyers over weight RV". Listing after listing of forum posts asking the same question and conjecture of it possibly happening. A couple of clicks off of one link found this (in support of your claims):
Towing: Liability for Overweight Loads

And I still have not found any first-hand accounts of either people who have done it or lawyers claiming to have successfully tried their side of a case.

Just because you can sue over something doesn't mean that there is any meat to it. Otherwise, I'm getting in on the Disney implanting chips into me suit:
Woman sues Disney, claiming they implanted a rubber chip in her body |

The irony to this post is that I'm actually on the side of towing within ratings. What I dislike (from both sides) is the wild conjecture in defense of positions. Do I think you should tow within ratings? Yes. Do I think you'll murder a million innocent babies if you do? Highly unlikely. Do I believe you'll be jailed or sent to the poor house in the case of an accident if you're towing overweight? As far as I can tell, seems unlikely.

Please continue to preach how to know your weights and why it's good to. But, you lose most of your audience by fear-mongering.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:36 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
Well, I'm on page five of doing a Google search of "lawyers over weight RV". Listing after listing of forum posts asking the same question and conjecture of it possibly happening. A couple of clicks off of one link found this (in support of your claims):
Towing: Liability for Overweight Loads

And I still have not found any first-hand accounts of either people who have done it or lawyers claiming to have successfully tried their side of a case.

Just because you can sue over something doesn't mean that there is any meat to it. Otherwise, I'm getting in on the Disney implanting chips into me suit:
Woman sues Disney, claiming they implanted a rubber chip in her body |

The irony to this post is that I'm actually on the side of towing within ratings. What I dislike (from both sides) is the wild conjecture in defense of positions. Do I think you should tow within ratings? Yes. Do I think you'll murder a million innocent babies if you do? Highly unlikely. Do I believe you'll be jailed or sent to the poor house in the case of an accident if you're towing overweight? As far as I can tell, seems unlikely.

Please continue to preach how to know your weights and why it's good to. But, you lose most of your audience by fear-mongering.

Well said sir!
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:06 PM   #43
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Define "legal".
This sheds more light on the subject from a legal aspect.

Personal Vehicle Towing Liability for RV’ers — PersonalInjuryClaimsBlawg

I quote for people that can't link... "Towing in excess of the vehicle manufacturer’s weight limits could not only prove dangerous, but could even be considered negligent. In the event of an accident with an overweight personal vehicle, you could be held responsible for higher awards in a lawsuit for damages to other people, vehicles or property."

and...

I qoute " Negligent towing could also leave you open to criminal charges and your insurance claim being denied."
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:13 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
This sheds more light on the subject from a legal aspect.

Personal Vehicle Towing Liability for RV’ers — PersonalInjuryClaimsBlawg

I quote for people that can't link... "Towing in excess of the vehicle manufacturer’s weight limits could not only prove dangerous, but could even be considered negligent. In the event of an accident with an overweight personal vehicle, you could be held responsible for higher awards in a lawsuit for damages to other people, vehicles or property."
I think you're confusing "legal" and "liable".
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:45 PM   #45
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I agree with Doug, but bottom line, none of this is going to change what people do with their own rigs. Wild speculation on "legal", "liable" and "could be" held "criminally responsible" is just that, WILD SPECULATION. In other words, "It's facts based on unknown assumptions compiled by people of questionable expertise".

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Old 06-24-2015, 12:49 PM   #46
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I think you're confusing "legal" and "liable".
Being found "NEGLIGENT" is a legal term.

Here is where the term legal comes into play... I quote from the above link. "Negligent towing could also leave you open to criminal charges and your insurance claim being denied."

The purpose of this post is that doing pencil and paper and saying you are within you truck limits may lead to a surprise if brought it to the scales. Most of the weight was loaded at or aft of in my RV wheels yet the my pin weight jumped for dry weight of 1953 to over 2800 pounds after add just over 1,000 of weight to the RV over dry weight. Since I have funded the majority of my retirement it come to CYA to stay within the limits. Other my think different!!!
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:00 PM   #47
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...Most of the weight was loaded at or aft of in my RV wheels yet the my pin weight jumped for dry weight of 1953 to over 2800 pounds after add just over 1,000 of weight to the RV over dry weight...
You add just over 1000# on or behind the axle and gain 847# on the pin. Absolutely amazing!
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:08 PM   #48
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You add just over 1000# on or behind the axle and gain 847# on the pin. Absolutely amazing!
That's right it did!! It cost me upgrade from 2013 3/4 ton truck to 1 ton. I can not explain why but I suspect that dry pin weight was incorrect and maybe the second air conditioner wasn't installed when weighed but my RV dealer said it was factory installed... My first thought was water in tanks but they were all empty.

It is a Prime Time Crusader 315RST and you can look up the specs and you can see the scale ticket i posted above.

Are My Figures Correct?
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:23 PM   #49
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Mine specs for RV below from the factory were 1953 pin weight with a gross weight of 9926 and estimated that I would add 1500 lbs ready to go camping and about 300 to 400 lbs of that would go to pin weight which would put me right at my 10,000 GVWR maybe a few lbs over of 3/4 ton truck. Good to go...

Truck Scale weight was - Steer Axle = 4780 - Dive Axle – 3220 Gross 8,000

Truck Manufacture ratings - GVWR 10,000 lbs - CCC 2475 - GVWR front axle = 6000 -GVWR rear axle = 6200 - Rear Tires 6100 lbs

Here is the scale ticket. after loading ZERO weight in the front bedroom, putting stuff under the sink in the bathroom and rest going in the kitchen which is over the RV wheels. Basement has 4 chairs, plastic carpet, power cord and couple adapters and small gas grill water hoses. Wasn't not loaded ready to camping - no bedding, cloths, food, and etc. No water on board and no generator.

B and B using the this info does this trailer exceed the legal limit on this TV? If you believe it exceeds that specs is still safe to tow? Were did I go wrong on paper figuring my pin and gross weights?

PS I had to go in and get them to reset the scales so my 240 lbs body was in the Truck Stop when the RV and Truck was weighed.
I'm no expert but it looks like your truck is weighing 10,740lbs on the scale, so if I calculated it right, you're 740lbs over the 10,000lbs GVWR. I read somewhere that it's estimated that 75% to 90% of all TV's are overweight somewhere be it axles, tires, GVWR, GCWR, payload, somewhere. It's just too complex for mere mortals.

Like I said I'm no expert on all this and I guess I'll take my trailer out and have it weighed next time I have it hooked up and we're going to or coming home from camping somewhere just to be sure.
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:27 PM   #50
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I agree with Doug, but bottom line, none of this is going to change what people do with their own rigs.
I bet you never thought you'd write those words with regards to weights and ratings.
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:47 PM   #51
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I bet you never thought you'd write those words with regards to weights and ratings.
I just agree with you disagreeing. I will continue my scofflaw attitude of the lawyer stickers.

I'm still trying to grasp how anyone can add weight behind an axle and gain weight on the pin. Defies the laws of physics. With that logic, I could get on a teeter tooter with you with equal lengths from the pivot.
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Old 06-24-2015, 02:17 PM   #52
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Truck Scale weight was - Steer Axle = 4780 - Dive Axle – 3220 Gross 8,000

Truck Manufacture ratings - GVWR 10,000 lbs - CCC 2475 - GVWR front axle = 6000 -GVWR rear axle = 6200 - Rear Tires 6100 lbs

---

Were did I go wrong on paper figuring my pin and gross weights?
So, I've played with tools for this exact kind of estimating vs. reality.

First, estimating loaded pin weights
Staring with the dry hitch weight of 1,953 lbs. divided by the dry/unloaded vehicle weight gives you a percentage of 19.7%. Generally speaking, this percentage increases anywhere from 1%-3%. Being conservative, using 3% gives you a loaded hitch weight just shy of 23%.

Now, your actual camper weight comes in at 11,160 lbs. If you multiply that by 23%, you'll get an estimated hitch weight of 2,533 pounds. That's not too terribly far off from your actual numbers.

You can see those calculations here:
Estimating Tongue/Pin Weight from Dry Weights - Towing Planner

Second, calculating your actual numbers
Your calculations seem to be correct. Your loaded camper weight is 11,160 lbs. Your pin weight is 2,740 lbs. And, finally, your actual loaded pin percentage is 24.6%.

You can see those calculations here:
Actual Weights - Fifth Wheel Weights from CAT Scales - Towing Planner

I'm curious what your yellow sticker actually says your dry weight is? And how that compares to the actual published dry weight for the 315RST? I know in my camper's case- there is a good 400 pound difference between the advertised dry weight of my camper and my yellow sticker's dry weight. And another 200 pounds difference between the yellow sticker and my scaled dry weight. See this for a breakdown of the advertised vs. actual weights.
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Old 06-24-2015, 02:29 PM   #53
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I'm curious what your yellow sticker actually says your dry weight is?
Are you talking about the truck yellow sticker - here the one that was on my 3/4 ton truck. This was a diesel truck, funny thing if was gasser it would of been rated to tow less weight but I would of really close to being in specs with my cargo weight.
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Old 06-24-2015, 02:33 PM   #54
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Are you talking about the truck yellow sticker - here the one that was on my 3/4 ton truck. This was a diesel truck, funny thing if was gasser it would of been rated to tow less weight but I would of really close to being in specs with my cargo weight.
The yellow sticker for the camper.
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:20 PM   #55
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The yellow sticker for the camper.
Just went out snapped a picture but the Yellow Tag on the RV and it says "Dry Weight 10035" and Cargo of 2259.

The CCC on truck yellow sticker was 2475 just a note. My 1 ton says 3744.
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:42 PM   #56
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When I weight my 3/4 ton with me and the hitch in it weight right at 8,000 lbs so with a 10000 lbs GVWR my CCC was 2000 lbs.

When I weight my 1 ton with me and hitch in it weight right at 8200 lbs so a 10000 GVWR my CCC would of been 1800lbs and I would of been over weight by 200 more pounds in my 1 ton. What i did gain was update axles (7180 instead of 6200) and updated tires. Since the option was checked giving me 11,500 GVWR i ended with 3300 CCC as as far as i can see withing limits. NUMBERS!?!?
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:42 PM   #57
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This site is simple to use and you can figure your weight in many different ways. If I had used this site when I owned my 3/4 diesel truck I would never purchased at 5th wheel over 10,000 lbs and probably not one over 9,500 lbs. Thanks to ependydad for posting the links.

Towing Planner - towing capability calculators
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:50 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
Well, I'm on page five of doing a Google search of "lawyers over weight RV". Listing after listing of forum posts asking the same question and conjecture of it possibly happening. A couple of clicks off of one link found this (in support of your claims):
Towing: Liability for Overweight Loads

And I still have not found any first-hand accounts of either people who have done it or lawyers claiming to have successfully tried their side of a case.

Just because you can sue over something doesn't mean that there is any meat to it. Otherwise, I'm getting in on the Disney implanting chips into me suit:
Woman sues Disney, claiming they implanted a rubber chip in her body |

The irony to this post is that I'm actually on the side of towing within ratings. What I dislike (from both sides) is the wild conjecture in defense of positions. Do I think you should tow within ratings? Yes. Do I think you'll murder a million innocent babies if you do? Highly unlikely. Do I believe you'll be jailed or sent to the poor house in the case of an accident if you're towing overweight? As far as I can tell, seems unlikely.

Please continue to preach how to know your weights and why it's good to. But, you lose most of your audience by fear-mongering.
Thanks Doug, My position as well!
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:01 PM   #59
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I am not worried with what I plan to do or currently tow. I have ample capacity for my needs and not worried with my setup, present or future. I am legal where I live, that is what counts.

Compared to where I just came from with a F 150 it is a cakewalk now with 3/4 ton and a Diesel and exhaust brake. Bring on the mountain passes next summer!!
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Old 06-25-2015, 12:47 AM   #60
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Weight your Rig You maybe Surprized

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot View Post
I just agree with you disagreeing. I will continue my scofflaw attitude of the lawyer stickers.



I'm still trying to grasp how anyone can add weight behind an axle and gain weight on the pin. Defies the laws of physics. With that logic, I could get on a teeter tooter with you with equal lengths from the pivot.

Somehow it can happen. Looking at this picture, if I take the 3 bales off of the back of the lead trailer, it will lighten up the weight on my drive tires.



Same with this setup. If I take a unit of 8' 2x4's off of the back of the trailer, by the rear doors, it will also take weight off of the drive axles.






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