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Old 05-20-2015, 07:21 PM   #181
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Bought a 2015 GMC 2500 Diesel to tow a 2016 Wildcat 295rsx. After 4x4, airbags, goosebed hitch, bed cover and Andersen fifth hitch, my remaining payload is 2416#. The Wildcat brochure pin weight is 1600# but after slide covers, auto level, battery, propane and 'my stuff' the tongue weight came in at 1880#. The Wildcat's dry weight to tow is about 10,500# (way under the truck rating).

I picked that truck because it was the beefiest one that can fit in my garage (I do have to back it in though). I picked that trailer because it was the nicest, biggest one we liked that matched the truck (and it had Maxiss tires and 16 inch wheels as standard).

Everything is new and only a couple of trips under our belt so far but I'm pleased to report I think I got it right.
My pin was advertise the same as yours and my pin weight is identical. Go figure...
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:26 PM   #182
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One more sort of related topic. When I was getting my Firestone Airbags added I checked into an aftermarket tuner. My thought was that I could then manage the performance curve on the engine (towing vs. non-towing).

To my surprise, the shop (a well respected one that I trust) discouraged me from spending the money. He said that all three brands of newer diesel trucks have no need for the aftermarket tuners. He said that all of the current diesel engines have computers that monitor and adjust very well and that if tow vs. non-tow was my concern, I should take comfort that the 'tow mode' controls do exactly what I was wanting.

That shop had Bully and several other tuner brands that they sell and install. I was there ready to buy. As a former salesman, I think his boss would be disappointed. As a current and future customer, I was impressed with his honesty. He did say the pre-2010, pre-DEF diesels all benefited from a tuner.
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:31 PM   #183
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One more sort of related topic. When I was getting my Firestone Airbags added I checked into an aftermarket tuner. My thought was that I could then manage the performance curve on the engine (towing vs. non-towing).

To my surprise, the shop (a well respected one that I trust) discouraged me from spending the money. He said that all three brands of newer diesel trucks have no need for the aftermarket tuners. He said that all of the current diesel engines have computers that monitor and adjust very well and that if tow vs. non-tow was my concern, I should take comfort that the 'tow mode' controls do exactly what I was wanting.

That shop had Bully and several other tuner brands that they sell and install. I was there ready to buy. As a former salesman, I think his boss would be disappointed. As a current and future customer, I was impressed with his honesty. He did say the pre-2010, pre-DEF diesels all benefited from a tuner.
Good thing you did not buy a tuner as your warranty would go out the window. The tuning leaves a fingerprint in the ECM that the dealer will look for and will deny claim if requested by GM. If you do decide you want more power, fuel economy, delete the dpf, egr, urea, then look into EFI live.
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:46 PM   #184
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I'm thinking I've seen you chime in on issues such as this- so you may by just baiting me here. I'm not opposed to walking into a trap, though. With that being said, the EB clearly makes substantially more torque at a lower RPM than any naturally aspirated gas engine it's size, so clearly the turbo is playing a huge role here. Operating at boost allows a smaller engine to have the same effective capacity of a much larger one- depending upon boost level. So, you could probably take an engine the same effective size and produce as much torque easily, but it would still be at much higher RPM's. The ability to force the air in at a lower RPM allows that torque curve to be much lower.
Not baiting anyone. I know Diesels have lot's of it just not quite sure where it comes from.Turbo/high compression engines/ect. I have no reason to bait someone plus i am not smart enough to get away with it.
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:52 PM   #185
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Not baiting anyone. I know Diesels have lot's of it just not quite sure where it comes from.Turbo/high compression engines/ect. I have no reason to bait someone plus i am not smart enough to get away with it.
According to Banks . . . .

Banks Power | Why Diesels Make So Much Torque
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:32 PM   #186
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Thanks madmax. exactly what i wanted. Now i can go bait someone.;o)
Side note. My eye sight is not as good as it once was. After reading all that i have got a screaming head ache but well worth it.
Thanks again
Mike
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Old 05-21-2015, 08:46 AM   #187
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It is way more than I expected. But, again, all great info. Seems that the choice is made when the time comes.
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Old 05-21-2015, 08:59 AM   #188
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Quoted from the aforementioned article:

"Now let's discuss effective cylinder pressure on the power stroke of a diesel as compared to that in a gasoline engine. We've already mentioned that higher turbocharger boost raises the effective cylinder pressure, but let's look at what else comes into play. In "Understanding Today's Diesel" elsewhere on this site, the way fuel is introduced into the cylinder is thoroughly discussed for both gasoline and diesel engines. Gasoline engines mix the fuel with the air before it enters the cylinder, so when the intake valve closes, the power potential of that air and fuel charge is set. The timed spark ignites the mixture and cylinder pressure rises to a peak at roughly 15 after TDC. Because the combustion process takes time, combustion may or may not be complete by 15 after TDC depending on engine RPM, but for all practical purposes, we can say that the process of combustion is concluded early in the power stroke and that no more heating of the working fluid (the gases in the cylinder) occurs. This means the force acting on the piston top is highest at a time when the connecting rod has very little leverage on the crankshaft pin. As the crankshaft continues to rotate past TDC, the leverage the piston can exert increases, but the pressure on the piston top is dropping quickly. This, too, is discussed in the aforementioned article.
Once you envision when combustion occurs and the relationship between cylinder pressure and leverage on the crankshaft, it becomes obvious that if we could continue the burning process longer into the power stroke, additional cylinder pressure could be generated to push on the piston top as connecting rod-to-crankshaft angle improves for more leverage, and hence more torque. This is exactly what happens in a diesel. Because the fuel is injected into the cylinder after the intake valve is closed and the air is compressed, the length of the fuel injection pulse, called pulse width, can be extended well into the power stroke. This means the average effective cylinder pressure acting on the piston is higher in a diesel than in a comparably sized gasoline engine. The higher turbo boost pressure, high compression ratio, and greater heat content of the fuel all add to the generation of cylinder pressure that is substantially higher than in gasoline engines too, but it is this continued injection of fuel that really makes the big torque numbers for diesels. And all of this taken together makes it apparent why diesel engines have to be built with such robust parts to withstand this high cylinder pressure and torque."


I believe the bulk of this statement is negated by the use of direct injection in gasoline engines. I'm confident that we'll soon see Ecoboost engines reaching the 750 ft.lb. mark (probably some already out there, but $1500 in bolt on parts gets you close to 550 on a stock engine)- a feat that this article claims is barely possible with a 350ci. engine. That will be 214ft. lb. per liter of displacement- very close to the 220 being bragged on with diesel at the beginning of the article. Gasoline will not be as efficient as diesel because of the difference in BTU content, however.
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:30 AM   #189
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They definitely didn't take a purpose designed and built engine like the Ecoboost into account, but it seems nothing ever does
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Old 05-21-2015, 12:16 PM   #190
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The Ecobomb is built a lot like a diesel... They used a lot of the same materials and design concepts. If they hadn't these things would be destroying themselves. However, I'll be surprised if the technology ever matches diesel in torque production. Do a bunch of bolt-ons to the diesel and see where the torque figures go... through the roof!

Fuel injection in most gasoline engines isn't really fuel injection. It's proper terminology is pressure injection carburetion. If the fuel/air is mixed before it enters the cylinder, it's a form of carburetion. Directly injected into the combustion chamber... is fuel injection. It's not new in gasoline engines. It was used in aircraft engines as early as the 1930s. Turbocharged V-12s, multiple-row radials, and long stroke/bore ratios are part of that equation, too. Have any idea how much torque is required to turn one of those massive propellers? Top that off with 140 octane aviation gasoline and water injection to keep from blowing the tops out of pistons, or blowing complete cylinders off of radials, and you have massive torque from gasoline engines. If they had been able to control the injection sequence like we can today with computers, turbo-diesels would have been a better, less complicated/expensive way to go. Diesels are showing up in increased numbers in aircraft these days.

From what I read about the computer-controlled diesel injection systems these days, there can be as many as 5 injections of fuel per power strike. I think this will continue to be refined and diesel power will get better and better.

Something else to consider... any gasoline engine requires a 14:1 air/fuel ratio, regardless of rpm... idle or full throttle.The mixture ratio for a diesel is variable, and is how engine speed and power output is controlled, because there is no throttle in the form of an air valve.. ie. it's wide open even at idle. The mixture at full power is roughly 25:1 and at idle may exceed 100:1. Another reason diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines. Ram EcoDiesels are doing 28 - 32 mpg... in a 1/2 ton pickup. It'll be interesting to see how the Cummins 5.0 diesel does in the new Titan pickup Nissan is supposed to release this fall. I know a couple of Nissan addicts that are already foaming at the mouth in anticipation...

Enough rambling... but I believe gasoline will never match diesel in torque, simply because there's more energy per volume in diesel, and it burn is more easily controlled.
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