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Old 05-07-2016, 05:57 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by CaptnJohn View Post
If I had the payload capacity a rear axel rating I'd tow 100% without a thought.


Sorry, I'm not following.
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:01 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by pprice01 View Post
Sorry, I'm not following.
Looks like he's saying he would have no problem loading enough payload weight to bring the total axle weight up to its maximum limit.
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:01 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by emm-dee View Post
Looks like he's saying he would have no problem loading enough payload weight to bring the total axle weight up to its maximum limit.


Ah, interesting. Thanks emm-dee
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:18 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by pprice01 View Post
So by your reasoning, this 3500 should have no issue towing the Gateway 3650BH (or any of the 5ers listed below for that matter) as its GWVR is less than the truck's max towing and the guesstimated hitch weight is less than the maximum payload.

I think you are trying to come up with a reason not to do something...probably because someone on the internet said "never go over 80% of whatever weight". Would the towing experience be more comfortable at 80% compared to 90%? Maybe yes..maybe no. In my situation if I load my Harley in the toy hauler then I'm at 82% of GCVR. If the Harley is left at home I'm at 76%. The experience is better at the heavier weight, but that may vary a lot for other owners or configurations.

A caution to you about the numbers on your chart. Those pin weights ("reported" and "true") are NOT real numbers. You have to go to a CAT scale (or get a Sherline scale) to find the real number. Using reported pin weights can get you in trouble (but, the "true" weight listed is PROBABLY closer to the scaled weight).

BTW...good thing you are actually considering all these numbers. Just don't let them scare you. Way to many people just hook up the TT and hit the road without having a clue about what's really happening. I've seen too many ton trucks hauling trailers that I know have pin weights well over 3,000 pounds. It's a very rare ton truck that has enough remaining payload to accommodate that weight.
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:54 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by pprice01 View Post
So by your reasoning, this 3500 should have no issue towing the Gateway 3650BH (or any of the 5ers listed below for that matter) as its GWVR is less than the truck's max towing and the guesstimated hitch weight is less than the maximum payload.
You chart show pin weights at 20%. My Crusader below had dry 1953 hitch with 9964 dry weight so about 19.8% weight of the 5er on the pin. I added 1180 lbs to the 5er and the pin weight jump to 24.1% at 2780 pin weight with 5er total weight of 11380 lbs. My current 5er has 22.1% of the 5er weight is on the pin. Floor plan, where you put the stuff, how much you carry all figures in to the how much payload you need.
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Old 05-07-2016, 07:10 PM   #36
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Finally an answer

Thanks everyone for their input, I very much appreciate it.

I tried to get AAA on the phone to discuss how they calculate whether or not my setup causes them risk due to weight - but they were less than useless giving me any information.

So the only place I had left to go was to the Dodge Dealer - which I did. It took me through 3 people before I got someone there who knew exactly what I was talking about.

Turns out that the payload ratings on the trucks have little to do with towing. The published payload ratings are for placing items in the bed like pavers or dirt, or general carrying of cargo capacity. Not towing.

For towing, I have to make sure that two things are not exceeded:

1. GCWR
2. Trailer + Cargo Max Weight

I also learned that the 2500 shares the same frame as the 3500, and the only differences in the 3500 were the Leaf Springs and the optional Aisin Transmission. These give the 3500 additional payload for hauling a bed full of dirt, etc. and the Transmission allows for an increase in HP by 30 or so.

The only difference in towing capability was that the 3500 can tow 110 more pounds, yes, 110!

Both versions have identical GCWR (25,000) and their base weights are within 40 pounds of each other. Unbelievable.

Once again, thank you all for your information, I appreciate it.

Happy Camping!


Paul
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Old 05-07-2016, 07:33 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by pprice01 View Post
Thanks everyone for their input, I very much appreciate it.

I tried to get AAA on the phone to discuss how they calculate whether or not my setup causes them risk due to weight - but they were less than useless giving me any information.

So the only place I had left to go was to the Dodge Dealer - which I did. It took me through 3 people before I got someone there who knew exactly what I was talking about.

Turns out that the payload ratings on the trucks have little to do with towing. The published payload ratings are for placing items in the bed like pavers or dirt, or general carrying of cargo capacity. Not towing.

For towing, I have to make sure that two things are not exceeded:

1. GCWR
2. Trailer + Cargo Max Weight

I also learned that the 2500 shares the same frame as the 3500, and the only differences in the 3500 were the Leaf Springs and the optional Aisin Transmission. These give the 3500 additional payload for hauling a bed full of dirt, etc. and the Transmission allows for an increase in HP by 30 or so.

The only difference in towing capability was that the 3500 can tow 110 more pounds, yes, 110!

Both versions have identical GCWR (25,000) and their base weights are within 40 pounds of each other. Unbelievable.

Once again, thank you all for your information, I appreciate it.

Happy Camping!


Paul
The same thing the Dodge dealer told me. That pin weight of the 5er does not count as payload so don't worry about what the payload of the truck or the much weight of the pin is just how much weight the truck can pull. Yea right - no clue what he was talking about.

Payload is the factor the one of the factors that determind the size 5er you can tow...

New Horizon has a 5er right at 25,000 lbs with pin weight of around 6250 lbs that will be sitting in the back of that 3/4 ton truck. Hmmmmm
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Old 05-07-2016, 07:39 PM   #38
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The same thing the Dodge dealer told me. That pin weight of the 5er does not count as payload so don't worry about what the payload of the truck or the much weight of the pin is just how much weight the truck can pull. Yea right - no clue what he was talking about.

Payload is the factor the one of the factors that determind the size 5er you can tow...

New Horizon has a 5er right at 25,000 lbs with pin weight of around 6250 lbs that will be sitting in the back of that 3/4 ton truck. Hmmmmm


Well, to be fair, that would violate the 1st caveat I mentioned regarding GCVW.
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:03 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by pprice01 View Post
As I look around, it seems that most people say that 80% of your tow vehicle's max rating is safe.

Other people say to stay at/below 80% of max payload (making sure to include people, gear, and the hitch to the hitch weight of the 5er) - while using 20% of the 5er's GVWR as the guide for Hitch weight - not the Mfg listed hitch weight.

Lots of 5er options out there. Here's my weight table assuming my tow vehicle has a max towing of 16,500 and a max payload of 4,350 (reduced to 3,800 after including 450 for people + 100 for gear in the truck. Could always lower more for the actual hitch, but you get the idea.

Seems at 14,500 or below for the 5er GVWR I'm below 90% on max towing and well in the safe range for payload.

At 15,500 GVWR OF THE 5er I get a bit shaky for max weight (94%) but still under while only at 82% of payload.

Is this too risky for weight, or should I be OK given that the payload is what it is?

Am I calculating properly?
All mfg the UVW as published in their guides do not include weight of options. For instance, I had mine built with electric level system, bike rack, 3 slide out covers and upgraded refrigerator. To that were added propane and battery. This added a few hundred pounds to the UVW. You can still populate your spreadsheet but do web searches for the models you want and look for those that have your options. Many times the web dealers have pics of the yellow weight sticker which shows the real off the factory floor weight.
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:13 PM   #40
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All mfg the UVW as published in their guides do not include weight of options. For instance, I had mine built with electric level system, bike rack, 3 slide out covers and upgraded refrigerator. To that were added propane and battery. This added a few hundred pounds to the UVW. You can still populate your spreadsheet but do web searches for the models you want and look for those that have your options. Many times the web dealers have pics of the yellow weight sticker which shows the real off the factory floor weight.


I've been basing my calculations on the GVWR of the 5ers.
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