When is slightly larger too large?

[RooVader]

I wanted to enlist the help of experienced tow people. The two Roo's I am considering are similar. Individually no single aspect bothers me but when does the cumulative differences become a problem?

I am limited by a 1300 payload in my Ecoboost. It is generally just me in the truck, sometimes the wife. Not loading the truck with anything but clothes.

The larger Roo is different in the following ways:

~2 feet longer and set back 2 feet because of a bike deck. Same box size.
~7 inches taller due to the larger slide.
~50 pounds heavier tongue weight (675 vs 620).
~600 pounds heavier (4600 vs 4000lbs).

I am struggling because individually none of these bother me. As a complete package I am worried it would make a significant difference in towing. The larger one is attractive due to a slight preference on floorplan and additional outside storage for light items, and of course a nice option for bikes.

Standard Ecoboost towing package, 3.55, FX4 crew cab stock. Will be purchasing blue ox or equalizer 4pt. Will I notice a difference or will it be negligible...in your opinion of course.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by RooVader

I wanted to enlist the help of experienced tow people. The two Roo's I am considering are similar. Individually no single aspect bothers me but when does the cumulative differences become a problem?

I am limited by a 1300 payload in my Ecoboost. It is generally just me in the truck, sometimes the wife. Not loading the truck with anything but clothes.

The larger Roo is different in the following ways:

~2 feet longer and set back 2 feet because of a bike deck. Same box size.
~7 inches taller due to the larger slide.
~50 pounds heavier tongue weight (675 vs 620).
~600 pounds heavier (4600 vs 4000lbs).

I am struggling because individually none of these bother me. As a complete package I am worried it would make a significant difference in towing. The larger one is attractive due to a slight preference on floorplan and additional outside storage for light items, and of course a nice option for bikes.

Standard Ecoboost towing package, 3.55, FX4 crew cab stock. Will be purchasing blue ox or equalizer 4pt. Will I notice a difference or will it be negligible...in your opinion of course.

You should be alright with either one, Go bigger IMO. Really don't think you will notice any difference in towing at all. Maybe a little more wind resistance that's about it.

[geotex1]

RooVader, I'm probably interjecting too much into your decision-making at this point since I'm just a former hybrider, but here's my thoughts... First, don't wrap up in dry weight comparisons because neither option will be delivered at them. Compare considering the max trailer weight at full CCC. So, with the BD you are looking a 6600# and the DK you are looking at 5000#. The BD has heavier running gear. I believe you wanted them reasonable optioned and with the sapphire package, so either will be delivered to you ~500# over dry. I can ask our friends what their loaded BD weighs if you like.

Payload already accounts for a 150# driver, so say DW, clothes, and other things hauled in the truck add 350# and consider 250# to account for full propane, electric tongue jack, battery, and the weight of the hitch. So, 1300-350-250=700#. So, either way you are going to be at your payload. You obviously can keep your tongue weight right at the "sweet spot" for trailer behavior and within your payload by properly packing either trailer and with proper WDH setup.

Some may argue the small difference in frontal area, but it's hogwash that I could prove to you with a basic flow model for your specific case where you'll be presumably towing with a pickup without a topper or fairing. That is, the delta in frontal resistance will be peanuts compared to the resistance already there considering the front rake on the hybrids.

Have you weighed considerations such as: where you will really be camping - on the flats, in the hills, are really up in the mountains? Will your journeys be predominately short, or are you a frequent long-hauler? How long do you plan to keep the camper? Will it outlive the current truck or do you have plans to grow your family? Finally, take a real-world assessment of what you will really be packing into the camper. I swear more gets in there than you ever imagine, and I was originally disciplined as a hiker with a bedroll!

Whichever way you go, the fundamental thing is a must is that you feel satisfied you made the best decision to check-off as many needs, wants, and concerns as you could with the available options!

Good luck!

[B and B]

I wouldn't worry about it. Growing up we used to tow a 24 ft travel trailer with a 1968 Ford Country Squire wagon with a 18 ft boat on top, 20 hp Mercury Outboard, Fishing Tackle, 4 people and weeks worth of clothes and food and couple cases of Old Vienna. It was over weight and no one died. My uncle had the same setup and he did not have any problems either.

Your truck is well within limits, remember you can pack the trailer so more weight is over the axles to minimize truck loading.

[SuicideSaints]

I don't think you will see a tangible difference especially when coupled with WD and sway control. As long as you aren't fully loading the trailer and truck (which you indicated your weren't) either one will be fine. 50 lb tongue weight increase is not a lot in comparison between the two, go with the one you like more!

[asquared]

I think your difference is negligible enough here. Get the trailer you want and call it a day.

[RooVader]

Geo, I want as much feedback as you are willing to give! That would be great if you could ask them what theirs came in at fully loaded. I am also trying to figure out how heavy the rails are and whether they account for part of that tongue weight.

When I checked the DK at the local dealership it was literally right on the published dry weight...I mean virtually right on. The only option I would add that it didn't have is a power tongue jack. I have no idea if the BD would be the same but that is where your friends could sure help!

I am a little confused by your frontal area comments. Are you saying that either one will have so much wind resistance that the extra 7 inches and being set back a couple feet will be negligible in difference...or the opposite? Sorry, just wasn't sure which you were arguing.

I totally understand your point about gross weight, but I absolutely know I will not be packing more regardless of which way I go. The primary difference is whether things go in the back of the truck under the tonneau, or in the storage hatches of the trailer. I am talking about kayak life jackets, dog bowls, etc...not firewood. The bikes would obviously add but they would be along maybe 10% of the time. I will not take more because of a higher GVW, I just won't...but I do see the fact that heavier operating gear factors in for sure.

I tend to camp pretty light and 90% is local, but I am trying to open the option of trips 3-5 hours away once per year. Family is not growing...or better not be! The kids are teens and if they join they always drive out on their own.

This trailer will outlast our truck if plans go the way I expect.

Great feedback, keep it coming.

[geotex1]

Originally Posted by RooVader

Geo, I want as much feedback as you are willing to give! That would be great if you could ask them what theirs came in at fully loaded. I am also trying to figure out how heavy the rails are and whether they account for part of that tongue weight.

When I checked the DK at the local dealership it was literally right on the published dry weight...I mean virtually right on. The only option I would add that it didn't have is a power tongue jack. I have no idea if the BD would be the same but that is where your friends could sure help!

Shot them an email for the info about "wet weight" off the dealer lot and now that it's geared for camping and what they can say about the rails.

Are you saying the dealership has a scale, or are you going by sticker and weight written on the A-frame with keel or china marker? If either of the latter, neither probably reflects the actual as-delivered weight. Many think the weights marked on the A-frame are more accurate, but I learned something from full-timer friends who do trailer transport that confirmed my suspicion never to rely on them. Further, it would be nice if the yellow stickers did reflect the as-built dry weight with certainty, but many have found with a trip to the certified scales that the weight is off.

I will share my personal experience picking up our HG last year. Dealer tech "helped" me put on my Equal-i-zer I brought out with us. I knew not to expect much, especially when he said they "set these up for this height at the coupler." I had already located where the closest CAT scale was to the dealer - 7 miles away! For giggles, I asked tech and service manager if they knew where the scale was - nope!!! Anyway, we left the dealer and I headed straight to the scale to get the Equal-i-zer better setup because I also have an auto-leveling suspension and it was a 5.5 hour tow home across PA. Our sticker weight was 787# less than the weight across the scale. Granted I now had two 30# propane bottles full, a deep cell, and oh, the "free" rv starter kit in the camper... LOL! Don't believe everything you read.

Originally Posted by RooVader

I am a little confused by your frontal area comments. Are you saying that either one will have so much wind resistance that the extra 7 inches and being set back a couple feet will be negligible in difference...or the opposite? Sorry, just wasn't sure which you were arguing.

The extra 7" and set-back would make negligible difference considering how the airstreams that come off the cab and duck down across your tonneau "slam" into the frontal area and then have to divert around. Different story if your TV was an SUV or pickup with cap-high topper, and another story yet if you had a topper that was tall in the tail.

Originally Posted by RooVader

Family is not growing...or better not be! The kids are teens and if they join they always drive out on their own.

[TURBS]

Average user added items are 1000#

[RooVader]

Wow, shows just how much I didn't know! I thought the yellow sticker reflected the trailer fully optioned as it leaves the factory? In other words, everything except battery and propane fill-up. Of course I knew this would not be the weight once I add things but I thought it included any options (power awnings, appliances, AC, etc.).

I definitely respect your analysis of wind drag so I appreciate your feedback. I know I am going to be pulling a huge wind drag so I definitely did not want to do anything that noticeably adds to that at all.

Thanks again for checking with your friends. There are so few owners of this model so it is invaluable.

[B and B]

The sticker includes all options, with exception of propane fuel and the battery or hitch.

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by RooVader

Wow, shows just how much I didn't know! I thought the yellow sticker reflected the trailer fully optioned as it leaves the factory? In other words, everything except battery and propane fill-up. Of course I knew this would not be the weight once I add things but I thought it included any options (power awnings, appliances, AC, etc.).

I definitely respect your analysis of wind drag so I appreciate your feedback. I know I am going to be pulling a huge wind drag so I definitely did not want to do anything that noticeably adds to that at all.

Thanks again for checking with your friends. There are so few owners of this model so it is invaluable.

The yellow sticker DOES reflect the actual weight when trailer is completed at the factory and rolling out the door for delivery.
Propane and battery added after that.

[SuicideSaints]

The yellow sticker reflects weight from the factory but not anything added after, ie battery, propane, additional hitches, or dealer added items.

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by SuicideSaints

The yellow sticker reflects weight from the factory but not anything added after, ie battery, propane, additional hitches, or dealer added items.

Correct.

[RooVader]

I did find out the storage rack rails are 25 pounds and included in the advertised tongue weight so hey, 25 pounds I could save, lol! (i know, i know...but every little bit counts!).

[geotex1]

Originally Posted by TURBS

The yellow sticker DOES reflect the actual weight when trailer is completed at the factory and rolling out the door for delivery.
Propane and battery added after that.

FR might need to have their scale calibrated then...

Ours being a net of ~500# off with no adds from the dealer and all holding tanks and HWH empty... A quarter ton isn't a drop in the bucket!

Vader, friends say: (cutting and pasting)

Hey man, happy to help! I have had more questions about this camper than any of the others we owned everywhere we go. Our unit was built with:
- Sapphire package
- Convenience group C
- 15K BTU air
- Slidetopper
- Stainless package
- Cherry cabinets with matching fridge doors - did I mention Nancy is obsessed with the lazy susan?
- Power Awning
- Heated tanks
- Outside grill
- Central switching and solar prep
The only thing different is that it was supposed to have a 24" LCD TV. The dealer couldn't find it because they take all the TVs out when delivered. They replaced the MIA one with a 28" from another unit which actually fits the E-center perfectly! It's a loaded pig my friend!
It weighed in at the scrap yard at 4959lbs when we got it home. That seemed reasonable since the sticker was 4813lbs dry. I think we're finally in camping form, maybe a little fat still and Nancy has a project for your skills that might shed some pounds. Anyway, I scaled it with setting up on the new Ford and we're at 6437lbs with water and both bikes.
Those rails are pretty light. I leave them in the shed because they're just annoying to deal with around the bikes. I'd guess they're about 30lbs.
Only issue with it is the Lippert power jack went out, but our dealer had a replacement shipped to me and a return label for the dead one.

[TURBS]

It's possible that the scale is off

[RooVader]

Thanks again geo(and others)...it sounds like they are pretty happy! Considering we would probably have a couple options less I am guessing I would be pretty close to published weight...4700ish off the lot. More importantly, the 600ish pound difference should be pretty accurate.

[SuicideSaints]

Just had mine on the scales mine was really close (within 30lbs) once I deducted my full dual 30lb propane tanks, dual batteries, and L brackets for my hitch. Im thinking something elsr is going on if it is 500lbs off? Did you deduct batteries and tanks? That's still not 500 unless you have 4 batts and 3 30lb tanks. Mines from the Evo factory so I wonder if that has anything to do with it? Manufacturer production line?