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Old 06-21-2013, 06:17 PM   #61
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MillerTime and OldCoot- I'm known for my stance, obviously.

I think what I read in OldCoot's response is that he's willing to overload all of the numbers as he feels the companies are publishing conservative ratings due to fear of liability. I'm not sure why it matters if I ever have or haven't overloaded anything. In this case, I'm not trying to wag my finger at anyone. I legitimately want to know why people often feel like some ratings are recommendations and others are firm ratings (not OldCoot, apparently).

MillerTime is firmly in the do not exceed ratings camp. I get that and can relate. But, my curiosity is still there- why do some ratings really matter to some folks but others are ok to be fudged. I've literally seen people say, it's ok to go over GVWR, but not RAWR. For those that feel this way, why? (For those that feel all ratings are to be respected- I dig that.)
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:23 PM   #62
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I'm obviously failing to keep my bias out of the question. It's unintentional and I genuinely want to understand.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:37 PM   #63
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I think what I read in OldCoot's response is that he's willing to overload all of the numbers as he feels the companies are publishing conservative ratings due to fear of liability. I'm not sure why it matters if I ever have or haven't overloaded anything...
Not my intent in any way shape or form. I have been in the design field and I know what we recommended for brochures and after the corporate lawyers got finished and the brochures printed, you would not recognize the numbers as they had been altered downward by 25%-30% most times and our original numbers were from exhaustive actual tests. I'm just saying that none of the stickers are gospel, but guidelines. As for whether you have or haven't overloaded anything, my point was why are folks so adamant about a truck, but neglect their car/van when it is loaded for vacation and very possibly overloaded for the tires/suspension but they don't head to the Cat scales.

I feel I can exceed my sticker numbers by a couple hundred pounds and be just as safe (as some folks insist on calling it) as everyone else.

Not saying it was right, but people have been towing trailers for years before all the stickers were on vehicles and if it were so dangerous, it would have been all over the news about crashes/accidents and federal and state laws would have been enacted would be enforced very rigidly. JMO. I'm off my soapbox now, carry on.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:48 PM   #64
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OldCoot- my first post had been gnawing at me with how I worded my interpretation of your response and you nicely restated it. I understand you mean that the numbers can be exceeded to a "reasonable degree" as the published numbers are scaled back from the actual testing data indicated.

Do I have have that right?
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:06 PM   #65
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OldCoot- my first post had been gnawing at me with how I worded my interpretation of your response and you nicely restated it. I understand you mean that the numbers can be exceeded to a "reasonable degree" as the published numbers are scaled back from the actual testing data indicated.

Do I have have that right?
That is correct. Would I exceed them by several hundred pounds NO!
I still wonder why you are so adamant about truck/trailer wts but not your car/van when loaded for trips/vacations or everyday travel. If a car is rated for 5 -150# people what do you do when you have 4-or 5 200# people plus stuff in the trunk? Get my point?
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:44 PM   #66
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.. plus stuff in the trunk? Get my point?
In not sure I'm comfortable about you talking about my junk in the trunk!
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:16 AM   #67
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Ependydad, I'll offer my theory on why many feel GVWR is not as critical as axle weights.

The manufacturers do not know how the vehicle owner is going to load the truck... specifcally the placement of the payload.

Isn't there a difference between placing 2000 lbs dead center in the truck verses placing 2000 lbs directly over the rear axle? Such as a 5th wheel pin wt?

Wouldn't the stresses on the frame and other components be significantly different depending on the placement of the payload? Isn't it possible the manufacturers determine the GVWR by assuming the worst placement of the payload?

In part that's why I believe there is a big difference between the sum of the axle weight ratings verses the GVWR.

Personally I would prefer to stay below all the ratings but with the number of 3/4 ton trucks I see towing 12,000 lb 5th wheels who are obviously exceeding the GVWR... I don't see how being over the GVWR by a few hundred pounds when towing a 5th wheel is big problem.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:49 AM   #68
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So what you're really saying is you're over what the engineers deem safe for your vehicle but as long as the state says you're legal you dont' care?

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I am over weight according to the weight police on here but fine by the real weight police where I travel.

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Old 06-22-2013, 10:51 AM   #69
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Say that is correct...why are the published numbers 'scaled back' and by how much?

Is it because they KNOW users will overload - so if the truck CAN handle 7500 and they tell you 7000 you'll load to 7300 and be fine - where as if they said 7500 you'd load to 7800 and be over?


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OldCoot- my first post had been gnawing at me with how I worded my interpretation of your response and you nicely restated it. I understand you mean that the numbers can be exceeded to a "reasonable degree" as the published numbers are scaled back from the actual testing data indicated.

Do I have have that right?
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:16 AM   #70
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prof fate, you are assuming the engineers set the limits and we are all but positive that the lawyers set them to protect the company from litigation. The stickers should be used as a guideline with a little common sense thrown in. Should you exceed them by 500#-1000# NO, but by 1-200# shouldn't make them any more likely to wear out the truck or create anymore of a hazard on the road than any other vehicle.
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:25 PM   #71
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So what you're really saying is you're over what the engineers deem safe for your vehicle but as long as the state says you're legal you dont' care?
No I'm not saying that at all so don't put words in my mouth. I care that my rig is safe and if it was not safe then I would be doing something about it. I don't need a 8 year old sticker on the door or someone that knows nothing about my TV to tell me whether I'm safe or not.
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Old 06-22-2013, 03:47 PM   #72
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The weight police are out in full checkstop on this thread!

I run at the max for my ratings. I know that my truck and my trailer are flawless, I am a maintenance and inspection nazi. I have never in my life had a tire blowout simply because I won't run on poor tires. I also am insured and legal... and then some. So, if something were to happen... whatever... that's why lawyers are rich I guess, my insurance is good, my equipment is good, I am an experienced driver. I won't change what I'm doing regardless of if someone on a forum types angrily that I'm bad lol
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Old 06-22-2013, 03:58 PM   #73
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The weight police are out in full checkstop on this thread!

I run at the max for my ratings. I know that my truck and my trailer are flawless, I am a maintenance and inspection nazi. I have never in my life had a tire blowout simply because I won't run on poor tires. I also am insured and legal... and then some. So, if something were to happen... whatever... that's why lawyers are rich I guess, my insurance is good, my equipment is good, I am an experienced driver. I won't change what I'm doing regardless of if someone on a forum types angrily that I'm bad lol
X 100, they seem to think because they can read lawyers stickers they are experts, (altho self-appointed) .
I echo your "I won't change what I'm doing regardless of or if someone on a forum types angrily that I'm bad", and I'll add "unsafe". I was pulling campers before a lot of them were born and have never had an accident or caused one. Not saying it won't happen, but it will not be because of an overloaded situation or faulty/inadequate equipment.
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Old 06-22-2013, 04:51 PM   #74
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I was pulling campers before a lot of them were born and have never had an accident or caused one. Not saying it won't happen, but it will not be because of an overloaded situation or faulty/inadequate equipment.
Prolly be cuz you're old.......
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Old 06-22-2013, 04:59 PM   #75
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Prolly be cuz you're old.......
You're right, our 2 boys say I'm "3 days older than dirt." Started pulling trailers in 1955 before I could legally drive. Made it official in 56, so I've been around the block a time or two.
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Old 06-22-2013, 05:59 PM   #76
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I Guess the answer, for me, to your very least question just comes from experience I do not ignore any ratings, but feel my pickup is up to pulling/hauling more than the ratings show. Where I live, 1/2 t trucks have hauled and pulled more than double their ratings in a regular basis, and yet continue to run well and not snap in half. Just yesterday, I helped a friend, who was moving some pallets of blocks. We loaded 24 pallets of 8x 8 x 16 concrete blocks on his trailer, pulled by a 1T Chevy. I know the truck would've been overloaded on gvwr, but didn't even blink at hauling the load. This is the norm for my area. I do differently, especially with my family involved. But to each his own...
This is how it is around here also. The big farmer in the area tows around a John Deere 650 dozer with a 3500 SRW Chevy 6.0L, I am guessing that the dozer and trailer must weigh something close to 28,000-30000lbs. Granted they probably one tow it maybe 5 miles each time they move it from there farms or fields, but the truck does the job somehow...

In this area being as rural as it is I am not afraid of going over tow or haul ratings of my trucks for short distances (under 5 miles). Usually every fall/winter my trucks haul oak firewood home 1 cord at a time (a full cord is around 5000lbs). All while bring the 7-10 loads of wood home I may see 4 or 5 cars total, thats an average of 1/2 car per trip. So I am more likely to hurt myself than someone else on my 3 mile trip from the woods to my house.
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:44 PM   #77
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Ependydad, I'll offer my theory on why many feel GVWR is not as critical as axle weights.

The manufacturers do not know how the vehicle owner is going to load the truck... specifcally the placement of the payload.

Isn't there a difference between placing 2000 lbs dead center in the truck verses placing 2000 lbs directly over the rear axle? Such as a 5th wheel pin wt?

Wouldn't the stresses on the frame and other components be significantly different depending on the placement of the payload? Isn't it possible the manufacturers determine the GVWR by assuming the worst placement of the payload?

In part that's why I believe there is a big difference between the sum of the axle weight ratings verses the GVWR.

Personally I would prefer to stay below all the ratings but with the number of 3/4 ton trucks I see towing 12,000 lb 5th wheels who are obviously exceeding the GVWR... I don't see how being over the GVWR by a few hundred pounds when towing a 5th wheel is big problem.
Thanks for the response. Interesting to read and ponder a bit. I guess it opens the door to wondering where the best placement for 2,000 pounds of load is vs. worse placement. Is it better over the rear axles? Is it worse to load the crew cab with adults?

The "worst case scenario" makes sense- but I then wonder for someone like me who doesn't know enough about trucks to really say; how as a novice who isn't mechanically inclined to know what and how to reasonably overload my truck.
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:45 PM   #78
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As for the other posts- I'm not sure why anyone needs to get nasty to have a discussion like this (both sides have been offenders). Meanness, sarcasm and unpleasantly witty comments don't help the discussion at all (or even jumping to extremes).
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Old 06-22-2013, 07:04 PM   #79
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As for the other posts- I'm not sure why anyone needs to get nasty to have a discussion like this (both sides have been offenders). Meanness, sarcasm and unpleasantly witty comments don't help the discussion at all (or even jumping to extremes).
I'm sure im one of the offenders. Having to work on these rigs everyday I am riddled with liability on everything I touch. So my boss, owner and their ins. Is counting on me to keep their best interest in mind (or else) - so I am conditioned to give any advise in the same manner. Because if I misinform a customer -or even possibly someone on here (don't think it couldn't happen) then I could find my self in court. I have had other colleagues subpoenaed, so I would be wise to realize the possibility.

And yes liability limits and or ties everybody's hands. I CANNOT do the same thing or repair to your vehicle as you can- insurance and general liability prevents this. If it is not an approved procedure than I cannot perform it with out jeopardizing others as well as myself.
-you guys do as you wish-cause im not liable, and that's what its all about these days.
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Old 06-22-2013, 07:18 PM   #80
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...how as a novice who isn't mechanically inclined to know what and how to reasonably overload my truck.
Don't think anyone is advising anyone to overload their truck. Just informing them that the stickers are the result of lawyers and should be used as guidelines and not as something that if violated will result in a catastrophe like is being implied. It appears sometimes that it is implied that if you violate such and such a sticker you will cause a horrendous accident and put their families in danger. You have to realize that everyone does not want a 3/4T or bigger truck for whatever reason. Not opposed to pointing out the stickers as guidelines for reference, but not to the point of a violation is a doomsday situation.
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