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Old 06-18-2013, 12:40 PM   #1
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Which numbers do YOU believe, and WHY?

Seems some of us ignore published figures for our vehicles and others are called weight police for even pointing it out.

Just wonder what numbers YOU believe, or NOT, and why?

Seems payload and GVWR on the TV is the most ignored figure. Few seem to pay any attention to GCWR. Everyone seems to pay attention to tongue weight, hitch rating, WD bar ratings.

I don't see anyone ignoring tire load ratings, few if anyone ignore axle ratings.

So why are some 'limits' heeded, respected and obeyed while others seem to be viewed as 'advice' or 'ballpark' or 'advertising' or 'lawyer' figures?

I think we've seen over and over that TT manufacturers use 'weak' frames, undersize axles, minimum spec tires - we see issues all the time.

Yet many think that Ford/GM/Toyota/RAM don't do it too? Really?

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Old 06-18-2013, 12:58 PM   #2
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I Guess the answer, for me, to your very least question just comes from experience I do not ignore any ratings, but feel my pickup is up to pulling/hauling more than the ratings show. Where I live, 1/2 t trucks have hauled and pulled more than double their ratings in a regular basis, and yet continue to run well and not snap in half. Just yesterday, I helped a friend, who was moving some pallets of blocks. We loaded 24 pallets of 8x 8 x 16 concrete blocks on his trailer, pulled by a 1T Chevy. I know the truck would've been overloaded on gvwr, but didn't even blink at hauling the load. This is the norm for my area. I do differently, especially with my family involved. But to each his own...

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Old 06-18-2013, 01:08 PM   #3
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I agree with JT, I choose to accept all the weight ratings. They are all there for a reason, whether that be for warranty, safety or what ever reason they are there for a reason.

All the truck WILL pull and haul more than they are rated for but the question is how long and how safe is it?

Like JT said, a lot of why I feel the way I do has come with experience. I have done A LOT of dumb things and have learned from most... There are times where things can be pushed a little but if you are looking for a rig that is going to take you anywhere at anytime then make sure you are under your ratings.

An example of a rig I wouldn't worry too much about would be a guy hauling his rig 20-30 min from home to usual camp site, but my issue with this is at some point that same rig is going to be taken somewhere else and the owner will risk it thinking this will only happen on occasion....

Another thing, if the insurance company finds you involved in an accident and overloaded have fun fronting the bill on that!

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Old 06-18-2013, 08:58 PM   #4
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I'll chime in. I used to drag a passport 28 Bunkhouse with a 2007 Ford F-150 Harley Version and it pulled fine, but in bad weather or traffic, it got got bounced allover the road. After a couple of years, we traded the F150 for a 2011 Ram 1500 with a Max tow of 14000 lbs and a payload of 1420 lbs. The pirsuit still got bounced around all over the place. It was a liteweight TT and we had to open the windows in the trailer to take some of the wind from passing trucks.

Then, we decided we needed something that had a private bathroom and bedroom. We had the Passport for three years or so and have been used to trading vehicles and RV's every 3-5 years so we decided to figure out if we could drag a fifth wheel. After a month or so of research, we decided on a fifth wheel with as lite of a pin wieght as we could find in a floor plan that we liked and a GVW that the truck could handle. (Withoutout going way out of our trucks limits and realizing that in ayear or two, we would buy a bigger truck and maybe even a bigger fifth wheel) or just keep the trailer we had and be able to travel further than we do now.

I admit, we are over weight and have at least had my truck on the scales. Next step is to have the whole rig on the scales. From the preliminary figures, I am about 140 lbs over on the payload.

And, yes, we travel short distances. I get alot of people asking me how the rig tows. The truck drags it fine and no power problems. If you tow, you have to pay attention whether you are lightly loaded or overloaded. I took a look at a few 3/4 tons this year and all I will get is about 1200 - 1800 more in payload and 1000 more in towing.

Then I will have to go to the medical center for kidney dialisys for all the bouncing and banging I will endure from daily driving. I tow my camper only a few times a month so now, it's not worth it to go to a 3/4 ton. I have a really nice truck and it's only 2 years old. If the rear end goes, I will pay to fix it. The way I figure it, I have a $50,000 truck and a $40,000 RV, and in two years I will be buying a new truck and evaluate the towing capacity then, but may even have a bigger rig..... Who knows.

I have seen plenty of 3/4 ton rigs on this site that pull way over or close to the GCVWR but the payload is within limits and because it's a 3/4 ton those guys get a pass. The go to answer when anyone asks the question about towing is. " you need a 3/4 ton"

Then the next response is, you can't stay stable when towing that wieght with a 1/2 ton and all the guys saying that have 3/4 or 1 tons with airbags. If you put airbags or timbrens on a 1/2 ton, it's not acceptable.

If that doesn't work, go to the stopping capability. If the trailer is pulled by a 1/2 ton, a 3/4 ton or bigger........The trailer still has brakes. Do the 3/4 and above croud think that the 1/2 ton guys just leave their trailer brakes disconnected because they like to live dangerously?

Most people just want to go on a short trip for the weekend and enjoy camping with firends and have fun, but every time towing is brought up, you'd think that everyone is hauling cross country.

The wieght issues are important and yes, If I was towing a 10,000 lb Fifth wheel, I would be an idiot, but towing isn't the same as driving in a 1/2 ton or a 3/4 ton. I have a friend with has a 3/4 to PU, pulls the same wieght as me and we travel together. We keep a consistant speed (60-65). He feels the pain and bouncing on overpasses just as bad as I do.

The best advise I can give is stay within your limits and if you don't know them...........figure them out.

Pass the pocorn.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:03 PM   #5
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CZNEDY, you didn't really answer the question. Why do you feel it's acceptable to exceed some of your truck's ratings? The closest thing to answer to that, that I saw in your response was- the 3/4-ton guys do it, so I will too.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
CZNEDY, you didn't really answer the question. Why do you feel it's acceptable to exceed some of your truck's ratings? The closest thing to answer to that, that I saw in your response was- the 3/4-ton guys do it, so I will too.
I think I did. I never said I thought it was acceptable to exceed my trucks tow ratings. I said I know I am overloaded. But..........for what we do travel-wise, I am comfortable. It's a nice truck, a nice camper a d when we decide to go more than 50-100 miles away or on long trips, we will get a 3/4 Ton. The 1/2 ton we have now id loaded and to get into a 3/4 T with all the same options would be about $60K, so I have to wait for the accountants approval. We really don't have too much problem towing it. I think I get more bumps on the forum than I do on the Road, haha.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:43 PM   #7
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Alright, here goes.

I'm over on GVWR, under on RGAWR, under on GCWR, and under my tire limits. So the big question is what component of the truck is affected by violating only GVWR? Over on GCWR would affect braking and drive train. Is it the frame, then why isn't the RGAWR still within limits; somewhat contradicting.

I'm not looking for an answer here as there have been many discussions on this site on the subject and I have yet heard anyone explain the relationships of the ratings.

I will say that I don't believe that I would be comfortable grossly violating (subjective) any of the ratings or violating axle or GCWR which I feel is mechanical in nature.

I do feel that my TV is safe, drives well, brakes well, and will have a long lifespan with my setup.

Happy Discussions!
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #8
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I agree, me too. Besides, the manufacturers are always going to leave a cusion and never publish the extreme limits, just the conservative limits. The one thing I could add, is I am used to driving a 1/2 ton. Never owned a 3/4 ton, but....... When I test drove a 3/4 ton, It felt worse than when I was towing with my 1/2 ton. No offense, just the feel I got from driving compared to what I am used to.
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:51 PM   #9
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IMO, the weight limits in the US are a reaction by the vehicle manufacturers to either their fear of lawyers, or a poor opinion of the average driver's capabilities.

In Europe, there are almost no 5th-wheel rigs. People either have TTs or motor-homes. Tow vehicles for the bigger TTs are either Land Rover/Range Rover or Toyota Land Cruisers. For the smaller TTs, they typically tow with the family sedan, wagon or "people carrier" (minivan in US terms). There are very few pick-ups used as family vehicles and no big ones like the F-series, Chevy or Dodge equivalents. In a road test by one of the Top Gear program guys a couple of years ago, he referred to the Honda Ridgeline as "gargantuan". I shudder to thnk what he'd call an F350 crew-cab, long bed dually!

European tow ratings are much higher. My 03 Kia Sedona (3.5 liter V6, 5-speed auto transmission) is rated for 3500 pounds in the US. A family member in the UK has the '02 model, same configuration as mine and it's rated for 3000 Kg (6600 pounds).
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:04 PM   #10
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If you drive an overweight rig 100 miles at 70 mph, is that safer than driving it 1,000 miles at 70 mph?

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