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Old 08-06-2019, 08:16 PM   #1
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Smile WhichWDH For a 4,500lb loaded Trailer?

Hello.
Although Iím sure this has been covered and beaten to death, I canít seem to find info for a smaller trailer which has a Hayes Sway Master already attached. Truck Factory installed hitch system, with NO WDH 500lb ball/5,000lb trailer....with WDH, infinity (1,200/12,200) lol.
Soooo, here goes.
TV...2017 F-150 FX4 3.5L EB Max Tow Pkg...1900lb payload, but probably only have @1600 available. 7050lb GVWR, Front axle 3500/Rear axle 3850. GCWR, a lot, Iíll never use it.
TT...2016 Coachmen Apex Nano 191RBS...Max load 4,500lb, Single axel, Dry Weight on sticker 3,382lb (disregard), Dry Tongue Weight 382lb (disregard).
PROBLEM...The trailer is tongue heavy...after reading a ton of posts about tongue weight, I bought a Sherline Tongue Scale (2,000lb). The first time I used it (after coming back from a 450mile round trip on all freeway level roads), it read @560-580lbs after 5-6 times over 2 days with most of what was in the trailer.
In preparation for our next trip...500 mile round trip up over Tioga Pass (Yosemite 10,000í), down Hwy 395 toward Mammoth Lakes and back, all California) I started taking things out of the front end and putting things in the back, also putting heavy stuff in the truck bed. I managed to get the tongue weight down to @500lbs. On leaving, I hooked it up to a Curt 750lb 2Ē rise ball mount and the rear end sat down @2Ē but the front end did not raise up much. From the side, it looked a bit nose down. It towed fine, and on the return trip I moved more weight to the back of the trailer and it looked a bit nose high (which suggests to me that the tongue weight may have dropped a bit) at hook up. Again, no problems coming home, and we got better gas mileage (downhill..lol).
NEXT STEPS...Today, I took the fully loaded truck minus @20lbs to the CAT Scale near me (it had been broken before our last trip). It read 5,950lbs without DW and the tongue weight, which would have brought it to @6,600lbs, dangerously close to the GVWR of 7,050lbs.
SOLUTION...I, more than likely, need a WDH...The questions are...
* Get one with a sway bar system and ditch the Hayes Sway Master
* Get one without the sway bar system and try to keep the Hayes as well
* Which Brand...Etrailer recommended a Reese model without sway bar, but I have not seen it recommended on these forums.
*What Size...6,000, 8,000, 10,000lbs...it is possible that we may upgrade our TT, but probably not more than @6,000lbs loaded.
Thank you all in advance for your input. It is much appreciated.
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:54 AM   #2
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The old standard tongue weight recommendation was 10% of overall trailer weight. Currently, it appears to be 10-15% to better control sway. So you are in that ballpark.
Dangerously close on payload? Specs are specs, you are within factory recommendations.
Do you need a WDH? No. Would it improve your towing experience? Likely, based on my experience with a 4K# TT with about 480# tongue weight with my new F150. Towing my current setup with and without WDH, only big difference was handling crosswinds.
My only experience with WDH is the one I have and it works well.
Reread your post. So you have a sway control system, is it attached and working? Many WDH have sway control engineered in, mine does.
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:24 AM   #3
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The Hayes unit works at controlling sway but its meant for lighter trailers that don’t demand a WDH. Your combination needs a WDH and sway control so I’d remove the Hayes unit and replace it with a 10K Equal-i-zer 4 pt WDH. If you had a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck you might be OK without a WDH and just the Hayes sway controller.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:09 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Boomerweps View Post
The old standard tongue weight recommendation was 10% of overall trailer weight. Currently, it appears to be 10-15% to better control sway. So you are in that ballpark.
Dangerously close on payload? Specs are specs, you are within factory recommendations.
Do you need a WDH? No. Would it improve your towing experience? Likely, based on my experience with a 4K# TT with about 480# tongue weight with my new F150. Towing my current setup with and without WDH, only big difference was handling crosswinds.
My only experience with WDH is the one I have and it works well.
Reread your post. So you have a sway control system, is it attached and working? Many WDH have sway control engineered in, mine does.
Thnx Boomer...the Hayes Sway Master works well...Iíll look into the WDH that u have
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:15 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by itat View Post
The Hayes unit works at controlling sway but its meant for lighter trailers that donít demand a WDH. Your combination needs a WDH and sway control so Iíd remove the Hayes unit and replace it with a 10K Equal-i-zer 4 pt WDH. If you had a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck you might be OK without a WDH and just the Hayes sway controller.
Thnx Itat...according to the Hayes rep that I emailed with this morning, the Sway Master can handle up to 6,000lbs...Iíll look into the Equal-i-zer 4 pt WDH
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:23 PM   #6
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Thnx Itat...according to the Hayes rep that I emailed with this morning, the Sway Master can handle up to 6,000lbs...Iíll look into the Equal-i-zer 4 pt WDH
Hello
I had a Curt #17499 WDH w/integrated sway control (800# TW; 8,000# TT) installed. I had the Hayes Sway Master relocated on the trailer frame. I contacted both, Hayes and Curt, regarding the use of both systems simultaneously. They both agreed that it would not be a problem for both systems to be activated...maybe a little overkill, I think... Anyways...towed it home from the shop and all is well. Will start looking for a bit larger TT for the spring now that I know a bit more about it. Thnx to all for your advice.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:44 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Hello
I had a Curt #17499 WDH w/integrated sway control (800# TW; 8,000# TT) installed. I had the Hayes Sway Master relocated on the trailer frame. I contacted both, Hayes and Curt, regarding the use of both systems simultaneously. They both agreed that it would not be a problem for both systems to be activated...maybe a little overkill, I think... Anyways...towed it home from the shop and all is well. Will start looking for a bit larger TT for the spring now that I know a bit more about it. Thnx to all for your advice.
I forgot...I also had a rear set of Timbren SES installed on the TV
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
I forgot...I also had a rear set of Timbren SES installed on the TV
I love my Timbren SES, I'm surprised they aren't more popular as it is a really good system.
WDH wise, my trailer is similar in weight and I've exclusively used a 10,000 pound Equalizer 4 point. While I don't have anything to compare it to, I have nothing but good things to say. Sway has never been an issue even with my relatively short wheelbase truck, and other than a significant decrease in acceleration and increase in fuel consumption, I wouldn't know the trailer was back there.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:02 PM   #9
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I forgot...I also had a rear set of Timbren SES installed on the TV
Not really needed with a WDH. You carry a lot of stuff in your bed without a trailer at times? You have 1900# of payload!
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:29 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DavidBo View Post
I love my Timbren SES, I'm surprised they aren't more popular as it is a really good system.
WDH wise, my trailer is similar in weight and I've exclusively used a 10,000 pound Equalizer 4 point. While I don't have anything to compare it to, I have nothing but good things to say. Sway has never been an issue even with my relatively short wheelbase truck, and other than a significant decrease in acceleration and increase in fuel consumption, I wouldn't know the trailer was back there.
I think I like it so far...stiffer than the Ford stock ride unloaded, but not overly so.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by babock View Post
Not really needed with a WDH. You carry a lot of stuff in your bed without a trailer at times? You have 1900# of payload!
Yup, thought about that after they were installed🤔. I haul @500lbs of hay off road, up and down hills, several times a year. Other than that not so much. I wanted to try the Timbrens anyway because I wanted a bit stiffer ride overall, and I can probably tow the trailer without the WDH on shorter trips. Otherwise...redundancy.
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Yup, thought about that after they were installed🤔. I haul @500lbs of hay off road, up and down hills, several times a year. Other than that not so much. I wanted to try the Timbrens anyway because I wanted a bit stiffer ride overall, and I can probably tow the trailer without the WDH on shorter trips. Otherwise...redundancy.
It also depends on your tow vehicle. I have a Nissan Frontier which has always had an under-sprung rear axle, the Timbrens help even with the WDH. They're even more useful when simply carrying something heavy in the bed as before it didn't take much of a bump to hit the stops. Again, that's just my truck.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:45 PM   #13
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At 800 lbs kit would be great for you. Unfortunately, Equal-I-zer does not make an 800 lbs kit. The 1,000 lbs kit will work, but it could be a bit stiff. Or, I think the Reese Dual-Cam and other kits with integrated sway control can be had in 800 lbs ratings. However, getting the 1,000 lb kit would mean you can likely use it if/when you change to a larger camper.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by thebrakeman View Post
At 800 lbs kit would be great for you. Unfortunately, Equal-I-zer does not make an 800 lbs kit. The 1,000 lbs kit will work, but it could be a bit stiff. Or, I think the Reese Dual-Cam and other kits with integrated sway control can be had in 800 lbs ratings. However, getting the 1,000 lb kit would mean you can likely use it if/when you change to a larger camper.
Thnx Brakeman...I had a Curt #17499 installed...it checks all the boxes and seems to work. Only towed @30 miles back from the shop, but have a trip planned for next month, so weíll see how it goes then.
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