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Old 02-15-2016, 09:25 PM   #41
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More get lost when buying a 5er than a TT. That 8000# TT can be towed by some 1/2 tons with 800 - 900 on the tongue at 10%. The 5er at 20% is a minimum of 1700# of payload. That is over many half tons before loading truck or trailer. Some 3/4 do not have much leeway from there either.
Actually ideal tongue weight is 13-15% of loaded tt weight. Too light on the tongue can cause sway issues.
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Old 02-16-2016, 01:43 PM   #42
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I agree that listing the dry weight puts the responsibility on the buyer to know what they are getting into. The dealer just wants to make a sale. Hopefully you will get a decent person somewhere along the line that will give a rip about your safety, but it's the buyer's responsibility.

But let's look at the other extreme: What if they listed ONLY the GVWR?
Some would say this is proper, because that is what you should be using anyway. I disagree. I've seen trailer that have 2000 lbs or more cargo capacity. For a full-timer in a 5er that literally lives out of their home, that's fine. Likewise for a toy-hauler.

But practically nobody in a non-TH travel trailer is running that far over their dry weight. Typical numbers are:
popups: 600 over dry
hybrids and short TT: 800 over dry
long TT: 1000 over dry

If the shows listed only the GVWR, it would kill sales, even for those that would actually have enough truck to pull the camper at the actual weights.

By listing the dry weight, you can apply some simple math (add 600, 800, or 1000 lbs), and have a good estimate of reality.
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Old 02-16-2016, 01:44 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by asquared View Post
Actually ideal tongue weight is 13-25% of loaded tt weight. Too light on the tongue can cause sway issues.
For a TT, you meant "13-15%", right?
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Old 02-16-2016, 01:56 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by thebrakeman View Post
I agree that listing the dry weight puts the responsibility on the buyer to know what they are getting into. The dealer just wants to make a sale. Hopefully you will get a decent person somewhere along the line that will give a rip about your safety, but it's the buyer's responsibility.

But let's look at the other extreme: What if they listed ONLY the GVWR?
Some would say this is proper, because that is what you should be using anyway. I disagree. I've seen trailer that have 2000 lbs or more cargo capacity. For a full-timer in a 5er that literally lives out of their home, that's fine. Likewise for a toy-hauler.

But practically nobody in a non-TH travel trailer is running that far over their dry weight. Typical numbers are:
popups: 600 over dry
hybrids and short TT: 800 over dry
long TT: 1000 over dry

If the shows listed only the GVWR, it would kill sales, even for those that would actually have enough truck to pull the camper at the actual weights.

By listing the dry weight, you can apply some simple math (add 600, 800, or 1000 lbs), and have a good estimate of reality.
Thank you! And mine is 4,000lbs cargo capacity. How on Earth could I put 4,000 pounds in it? The basement is a decent size but wow.

Oh, and it was mentioned that I'd cross payload before reaching my tow rating. I'll admit, by strict numbers I'm about 280lbs over payload, when maxed out ready to tow. But, I'm so far under my axle rating it's laughable, so I'm not going to sweat it.
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Old 02-16-2016, 04:01 PM   #45
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Red face GVWR vertigo

If I see the pin weight for a 5er at 2500#, I figure it will be over 3200# by the time the rig is camp ready, more if a genny, W/D, or front A/C is added on the front end. So I am using about 125-130% of the listed pin weight as a rule of thumb for load. I also take into account that some of the floor plans will result in more camping gear weight up over the pin than others, such as a rear kitchen model. We are looking at the Front Living room models and I figure there would be much less weight you would add to the living room (Blu Rays are light) compared to a front bedroom or front bathroom model. About the last thing I do is to check to see if the 5er GVWR is less than the 23,000# rating; we are looking at 16,000-17,000# GVWR units and I don't think we will add more than 1,700# of gear, well under their rated cargo capacity.

We are shopping first for a diesel crew cab, dually with a GVWR of 13,000#, and think that should be more than enough to handle the weight.

Any comments on my math or methods?
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Old 02-16-2016, 04:32 PM   #46
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If I see the pin weight for a 5er at 2500#, I figure it will be over 3200# by the time the rig is camp ready, more if a genny, W/D, or front A/C is added on the front end. So I am using about 125-130% of the listed pin weight as a rule of thumb for load. I also take into account that some of the floor plans will result in more camping gear weight up over the pin than others, such as a rear kitchen model. We are looking at the Front Living room models and I figure there would be much less weight you would add to the living room (Blu Rays are light) compared to a front bedroom or front bathroom model. About the last thing I do is to check to see if the 5er GVWR is less than the 23,000# rating; we are looking at 16,000-17,000# GVWR units and I don't think we will add more than 1,700# of gear, well under their rated cargo capacity.

We are shopping first for a diesel crew cab, dually with a GVWR of 13,000#, and think that should be more than enough to handle the weight.

Any comments on my math or methods?

We're looking at a front living room as well, but at the camper show, the wife saw a front kitchen in the 5'er and as a pin weight of 2810# (dry) and loved it, so now we're going back and forth on that.

Too bad we can't take a camper for a test weekend like you can cars and trucks.
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Old 02-16-2016, 04:50 PM   #47
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Oh boy, I am thinking you can add some significant weight right over the pin with a kitchen up there. Not like my DW can't add significant weight in a closet on a front bedroom model! Good luck!
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Old 02-16-2016, 05:00 PM   #48
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Here are my cat scales weights for the Front Living Room 3711FL with 900 lbs CC over dry weight.

Notice that the GVWR of 1 ton of 11500 and Cat scales shows 11340 lbs.

Truck not hooked to 5er
Steer Axles 4740
Rear Axles 3480
GVWR 11500
Payload 3744
RAWR 7000

Cat Sales
Steering Axles 4880
Rear Axles 6460
Trailer Axles 10980
Total 22320

Stats
Camper Weights 14,100
Truck with 5er hitched 11340
Pin Weight 3120
Pin Percentage 22.1

5er Dry weights
Pin Dry 2790
Total Dry 13200
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Old 02-16-2016, 05:07 PM   #49
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Oh boy, I am thinking you can add some significant weight right over the pin with a kitchen up there. Not like my DW can't add significant weight in a closet on a front bedroom model! Good luck!
and that closet is nearly right over the pin. Just shoes ~~ we just came home from 4 weeks in FL~~ everything from flip-flops to heels with everything in between,,,, light blouses to a parka. She asked if I would put a shelf in the closet and told her it cannot be done.
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Old 02-16-2016, 05:50 PM   #50
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CWSWINE that is just about exactly what we are looking for. And you are pulling with 1 ton, so that pretty much confirms my numbers. Is yours a dually? Thanks for posting the CAT scale numbers, very helpful!
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Old 02-16-2016, 05:52 PM   #51
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and that closet is nearly right over the pin. Just shoes ~~ we just came home from 4 weeks in FL~~ everything from flip-flops to heels with everything in between,,,, light blouses to a parka. She asked if I would put a shelf in the closet and told her it cannot be done.
I hear your pain! We traveled to Oregon from Texas last June and up through Yellowstone. She carried everything but her wedding dress! And our closet is basically on the hitch of the Windjammer too.
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:13 PM   #52
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CWSWINE that is just about exactly what we are looking for. And you are pulling with 1 ton, so that pretty much confirms my numbers. Is yours a dually? Thanks for posting the CAT scale numbers, very helpful!

This was on 1 ton SRW 2015 F350 Diesel.

Little more information. The center of the fridge sits over the forward axle and the food pantry, bathroom and bedroom sits aft of the forward axle. Everything that is currently forward of the front axle in this 5er is stuff that stays in the 5er and most storage is full which isn't much storage forward of the axles. Anything added to the 5er for camping trip ie food and clothes wife's shoes- would be added over or aft of the axles. There is 6 slides (one cable, two electric and three hydraulic). The biggest negative (or could be plus) is a front basement that is only 18" wide. There is another basement aft of the axles in bedroom slide. What nice about the aft basement is you can put all you cables hoses and setup stuff in there and still have plenty of room for small grill. The other neat feature is the window in the front cap so you look forward but it does need clean a lot with all the bugs.

This 5er is the very top end of 1 ton SRW if you worried about staying within your GVWR and if this was a foward bedroom or if the fridge sat forward of the axles you bust you GVWR. Pulling this 5er with a SRW 1 ton you have to watch passengers and weight you carry in the truck and how you load the 5er. Watching the 2017s and see if payload increases.

This truck is not on the overload springs sitting still but when you hit dip you can feel the overloads kicking in and causes a bounce affect.

I would be glad to answer any other questions that you might have.
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:34 PM   #53
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For a TT, you meant "13-15%", right?
Yes 13-15% is correct. That was a fat fingered typo. Post edited to fix typo.
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Old 02-16-2016, 08:17 PM   #54
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Six pages is a lot for a moot point. There has to be a starting point.
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Old 02-16-2016, 08:41 PM   #55
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Would be impossible for them to post anything but dry weights. Who knows what folks will pack and where? I don't see anything wrong with the posted dry weights to cause anyone any heartburn. Just something to gripe about I guess.
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Old 02-16-2016, 08:48 PM   #56
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Well, it is winter time. Most of us have the RV tucked away so not much going on there... Nothing else left to do but gripe until the spring comes!
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:13 PM   #57
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Ignore any weight numbers the dealer has posted. Instead, walk around to the street side of the trailer and read the yellow sticker. It will give you both the dry weight and the cargo capacity and higher up on the white part, it will give you the GVWR. Then you'll know what your limits are.
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:14 PM   #58
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Ignore any weight numbers the dealer has posted. Instead, walk around to the street side of the trailer and read the yellow sticker. It will give you both the dry weight and the cargo capacity and higher up on the white part, it will give you the GVWR. Then you'll know what your limits are.
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:22 PM   #59
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Ignore any weight numbers the dealer has posted. Instead, walk around to the street side of the trailer and read the yellow sticker. It will give you both the dry weight and the cargo capacity and higher up on the white part, it will give you the GVWR. Then you'll know what your limits are.
The problem still is what the percentage of that weight will transfer to the pin weight. The Crusader below had 19.1 percent dry pin percentage but after loading it the percentage jumped to 24.1. Most fivers will jump from 2 to 4 percent from the dry percentage and when you talking about 10,000 5er that could be a difference of 200 to 400 lbs of pin weight.
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:38 PM   #60
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Glad I have a little TT and a big truck. On a side note CWSWINE nice cars in the pic, I have a 64 coupe 327 365 hp. tan on tan.
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