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Old 03-22-2011, 07:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Labzy View Post
Well, most pick up trucks have more weight over the front axles than the rear.
Agree

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And sorry, but I disagree with you on the TW concept, although I understand your thinking. As I said earlier, this completely confused me for a long while lol. I didnt believe any of the trailer dealers who told me that the TW was not considered part of the payload. Then I called Chrysler, and they explained it all to me. The Tongue Weight is not considered part of the trucks payload, although it is part of the overall GCWR. The payload is only cargo inside the truck itself ie. passengers, fuel, and cargo in the trailer bed. It does not include the 'weight' of the trailer on the hitch.
Who did you talk to at Chrysler ?? What is the difference between a trailer tongue weight and a 5th wheel pin weight ??

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If what you are saying is true....then 99% of the trailer/truck combos that are on the road are exceeding their payload limits!!!!
I agree that many tow vehicles out there are over their payload limits.....including some 3/4 ton trucks towing a 5th wheel with a 2000 lb. pin weight, an extra fuel tank in the bed, and the cab loaded with passengers. I would like to think the overloaded vehicle figure is much lower than 99%.

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I have a 2010 Dodge Ram with a total weight of 5700lbs and a GVWR of 6800 lbs which makes my payload 1100lbs.
This truck is rated to tow 9750 lbs, and the GCWR is 15,500.
If I towed this pretend trailer weighing 9750lbs that would make my TW anywhere between 975-1460 lbs, which would be way over the payload capacity, if TW was to be included.
Your truck has similar stats as mine. Without a WDH putting some of the weight back onto the trailer axles, I would probably be over my GVWR rating.....I am close as it is.

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Anyways, lol I dont need to worry about this because the 2306 is only gonna be 4000lbs or 400-600lbs TW so I will be inline with either of our methods.
Cheers
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:39 PM   #22
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Hmm.. I forget who I talked to at Chrysler, I just called the number that is listed on our bill of sale. A manager had to call me back though because nobody I talked to initially knew what I was asking LOL.
And believe me....I thought the same as you...it confused the heck outta me and as soon as I get my trailer Im taking it to the scales and I'm weighing the truck only (with the trailer attached) and seeing what the weight is.
I also asked the same question you did, "whats the difference between the TW and a King Pin Weight in the truck bed?" I think there is a difference and I do believe that the King Pin would be included in the payload. ( dont quote me though, 'cuz I didnt pay attention to this part as I dont have 5th wheel)
But rest assured I was told that the TW is NOT included in the payload.
I even gave the guy @ Chryslers crap for making it so confusing , how they dont fully explain the definitions of what cargo (payload) actually is.
Btw...how do you quote parts of a message in your reply?? It's very impressive xD
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:49 PM   #23
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Hmm.. I forget who I talked to at Chrysler, I just called the number that is listed on our bill of sale. A manager had to call me back though because nobody I talked to initially knew what I was asking LOL.
And believe me....I thought the same as you...it confused the heck outta me and as soon as I get my trailer Im taking it to the scales and I'm weighing the truck only (with the trailer attached) and seeing what the weight is.
I also asked the same question you did, "whats the difference between the TW and a King Pin Weight in the truck bed?" I think there is a difference and I do believe that the King Pin would be included in the payload. ( dont quote me though, 'cuz I didnt pay attention to this part as I dont have 5th wheel)
But rest assured I was told that the TW is NOT included in the payload.
I even gave the guy @ Chryslers crap for making it so confusing , how they dont fully explain the definitions of what cargo (payload) actually is.
Btw...how do you quote parts of a message in your reply?? It's very impressive xD
to quote the other person's message hit the quote button on the person you want to reply to

Read this
RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Towing: Payload Capacity and Tongue Weight

this will expain that Tongue weight is included in the payload - same deal with a 5th wheel king pin even though it is directly over the rear axle it also takes away from the payload capacity
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:19 PM   #24
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Labzy,
I understand your arguments. But...

1) The manager gave you bum information. It happens.

2) I'm on my phone right now but I can provide other supporting info when I get home. Suffice it to say, the link above is a good summary.

The most accurate way to calculate this is to take the TVs GVWR less the actual weight of the TV less your family and other cargo and that's what's left for the tongue.

3) I'm not going to try typing out the effect of the WDH while on the phone, but that's also interesting in how it effects the TVs towing capabilities. Mtnguy explains that nicely though.
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:23 PM   #25
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Hey!!
Ok that was just plain confusing....and he didnt even mention the weight of his trailer. All he is saying is that he has exceeded his payload by 200lbs but by using a WDH he rectified this problem.
Im going to start a new thread asking people what their payload is compared to their TW and see what people are doing...
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:32 PM   #26
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Labzy,
I understand your arguments. But...

1) The manager gave you bum information. It happens.

2) I'm on my phone right now but I can provide other supporting info when I get home. Suffice it to say, the link above is a good summary.

The most accurate way to calculate this is to take the TVs GVWR less the actual weight of the TV less your family and other cargo and that's what's left for the tongue.

3) I'm not going to try typing out the effect of the WDH while on the phone, but that's also interesting in how it effects the TVs towing capabilities. Mtnguy explains that nicely though.
Yes, yes I understand what you are saying, as a said earlier this is what I originally thought. But every trailer dealer I talked to told me that the TW was not included in the payload, I told them all that they were wrong and contacted Chrysler; Chrysler in turn informed me I was wrong and all the dealers were right (anyone got a hadache yet?)
Irregardless the trailer I will be towing has TW that added to our curb weight will be under our payload capacity.
I'm just wondering about the many, many trucks on the road filled with 2 adults, 2 kids, the family dog, not to mention supplies, towing a 6000+ trailer with a TW of 600-900 lbs.How the heck do they do it?
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:38 PM   #27
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Yes, yes I understand what you are saying, as a said earlier this is what I originally thought. But every trailer dealer I talked to told me that the TW was not included in the payload, I told them all that they were wrong and contacted Chrysler; Chrysler in turn informed me I was wrong and all the dealers were right (anyone got a hadache yet?)
Irregardless the trailer I will be towing has TW that added to our curb weight will be under our payload capacity.
I'm just wondering about the many, many trucks on the road filled with 2 adults, 2 kids, the family dog, not to mention supplies, towing a 6000+ trailer with a TW of 600-900 lbs.How the heck do they do it?
they do it very carefully
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:04 PM   #28
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Ha ha.
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