Your thoughts requested.. Would you tow this? Am I Crazy?

[007matman]

Alright.. here goes. I am going to put it all out there. Be nice. :-)

Background... purchased this trailer in April. It is a 2008 Rockwood Signature Ultra-Lite 8318SS. First time large camper buyer (I have had pop-ups up intil this point so not new to towing or camper maintenance). The guy we bought it from said that "He thought it was around 6K" I did a little research online and saw various numbers for the weight of the unit and figured it was probably around that number or a little over. The actual weight sticker for the camper was not where it should be and we did not have it available at the time of the purchase (further info on this is lower in this post). The unit looked fairly clean but did need some minor repairs to a few of the seams and windows. $11,750 later and it was ours.

After the purchase I noticed that the tires needed replacing, some additional leaks were found and I have spent quite a bit of time working on the camper to make it solid for us to use. So, I have probably spent an additional $1000 fixing it up.

I am towing using a 2010 Escalade ESV AWD (7800lb towing capacity) and figured the numbers initially looked good (a little higher than I wanted) but it was what the family wanted so I thought I would make it work and we would just pack light.

FFW to last week. We had some issues with the Escalade and long story short we ended with a new (rebuilt) transmission. I think the failure was due to poor maintenance by the previous owner (we have only owned it for about 9 months and it is still under warranty). They stated that it would not retain 5th gear which explains a lot about when I would go down hills with any type of a load (including my pop-up) and it would massively downshift (probably to 4th).

The first time we pulled it I did have tranny temps in the 230 range which I understand isn't a huge deal. However, I was worried about damage when pulling for hours and went ahead and installed a larger tranny cooler. Since then I don't see anything past about 170 when towing so I think I have that under control.

I got curious last weekend and wondered what the weight was so I took it to the closest truck Pilot truck stop.

This is what they said:
Combined weight info (all axles were on the weigh equipment).
Total Gross Weight: 13,760
Steering Axle: 3260
Drive Axle: 4160
Trailer Axle: 6340

Trailer only, WDH was included in this measurement which is probably around 100LBS.
Total Gross Weight: 7220
Tounge weight: 1100 (was resting on the drive axle section of the weighing equipment and the WDH was on this section as well)
Axle weight: 6120

From the vehicle:
GCWR: 14,000
Max Tow: 7800
Tounge: 1100
Front Axle (GAWR): 3600
Rear Axle (GAWR): 4200

So, as you can clearly see I was pretty much at the max for my vehicle. I am planning on shifting some things around and removing some of the weight in the tounge (I had several heavy items in the forward compartment of the trailer that I plan to remove completely.. probably around 200lbs). I am clearly under in max tow, but my combined and the axle weights have made me nervous. The vehicle seems to tow just fine and as I mentioned earlier, the tranny seems happy with its new cooler.

We plan to just use it on short trips mostly down to the lake which is not very far (less than 20 miles). We will probably go up into the mountains of North Georgia and there are some steep grades but it will only be a few times a year. My major concern is our annual trip up north to Iowa, Minnesota, Eastern South Dakota, and Nebraska. Its only once per year but when we go we are traveling a long distance mainly on the interstate but there are some steep hills though Tennessee that we will need to navigate. After that its mostly flat or gently rolling hills.

Before we bought it we went to multiple dealers and they all said that they wouldn't hesitate to max it out. I didn't like this but figured I may be able to get by with that if needed. The camper is much heavier than I originally thought it would be. Since we bought it we found the original weight sticker in a rear cabinet (someone ripped it off and concealed it so we wouldn't find it easily) and it says that it was 6709 when it left the factory. Since then someone added a rubber roof, which I think is probably responsible for a couple of hundred pounds.

The trailer was fairly well loaded and I had of my family members in the car at the time of my measurement. It was really only missing clothes for a family of 6 (and my wife and son which combined are probably around 250lb) Tanks were empty and I don't plan on traveling with anything in the tanks at all.

Thoughts? I would really like to hear from those of you that have done this before. What is the experience and how did you do? Are there any other mods I should be thinking about in this scenario?

Thanks.

[Lins]

I'm no expert, but - a little extra gear for your trip could put you a little over, so just be ware of that which I'm sure you are. I'm sure at some point you will be travelling with something in the tanks. As for being close to the limit, it's hard to say. How does it feel towing now, have you tried any big hills yet? If your numbers are under the limit and it feels good towing I'm sure you'll be fine. As for longevity just don't be hard on the truck while towing, especially up hills, take your time if needed. You've already added a cooler which is a huge help, I would just change the fluids more often.


You don't think the roof is factory?

[thebrakeman]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Attachment 138227
...
The first time we pulled it I did have tranny temps in the 230 range which I understand isn't a huge deal. However, I was worried about damage when pulling for hours and went ahead and installed a larger tranny cooler. Since then I don't see anything past about 170 when towing so I think I have that under control.

Nice!!

...
Before we bought it we went to multiple dealers and they all said that they wouldn't hesitate to max it out. I didn't like this but figured I may be able to get by with that if needed. The camper is much heavier than I originally thought it would be. Since we bought it we found the original weight sticker in a rear cabinet (someone ripped it off and concealed it so we wouldn't find it easily) and it says that it was 6709 when it left the factory. Since then someone added a rubber roof, which I think is probably responsible for a couple of hundred pounds.

Pretty sure all campers have rubber roofs, so that's not added weight. Perhaps they had it replaced?

The trailer was fairly well loaded and I had of my family members in the car at the time of my measurement. It was really only missing clothes for a family of 6 (and my wife and son which combined are probably around 250lb) Tanks were empty and I don't plan on traveling with anything in the tanks at all.

This additional weight is going to put you pretty much right at your 14,000 lb GCVWR. IMO, that's fine for short trips and reasonably level ground. My concern for you will be getting into serious hilly terrain, both for ability to pull the hill without overworking the drivetrain, braking on the way down, and thin air at elevation (also drivetrain).

Thoughts? I would really like to hear from those of you that have done this before. What is the experience and how did you do? Are there any other mods I should be thinking about in this scenario?

Thanks.

If you hadn't yet purchased, most here would recommend you don't do it. And some may even tell you to get a smaller trailer or a bigger tow vehicle. In the end, that's probably good advice. The TV is 7 years old. Given the work you've put into the trailer, if you like it, and 3/4-ton would be very nice. May not work for your family of 6, especially as they get older/bigger, since someone has to be in the front with mom and dad.

But for now, I think you should try to use it for local trips, just to see how it does. Venture out further each time, so you're not committed.

For the "annual" trip (sounds like you're following the Ingalls family?), I would not do this until you've had several shorter trips. That may mean skipping it this year. Either way, unless other chime in and say that your truck is up to the task, I would change your route and avoid Tennessee. Seems like I-20 to Birmingham, then I-22 to Memphis might keep things quite a bit flatter, then shoot North into the plains along the Mississippi River.

[dbledan]

You are in similar situation to me. I am close on my weights. Fully packed with DW kid and dog we are about 100lbs from max payload. I have room in hitch and tow capacity though. I was hoping for more buffer in payload. The first trip out I was over packing mostly due to tools. I weighed and went back home to leave lots of things and handling was poor. Weighed again and hit close. Keep in mind you can also lighten your load by waiting to buy food water etc when you get there. Every bit counts. I pack heavy so easier for me to remove items to make the numbers work. A lot of it was distribution but for you that may not work if trailer axles are close as well.

As long as you are lower than the limits and it handles well you should be safe. You will have to be careful though on packing. Weights change a lot with gear and a little with placement.

Should you decide to upgrade TVs you are near half ton limits as well and you would need a 3/4 ton. I will eventually do this but not until I am not getting robbed blind. Until then less stuff and diets!

Had a buddy with a few different Tahoes and the transmissions had lots of issues with no towing. Sounds like you may have prevented that with the cooler change.

Congrats on the trailer and good luck!

[325BH]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Attachment 138227

Alright.. here goes. I am going to put it all out there. Be nice. :-)

Background... purchased this trailer in April. It is a 2008 Rockwood Signature Ultra-Lite 8318SS. First time large camper buyer (I have had pop-ups up intil this point so not new to towing or camper maintenance). The guy we bought it from said that "He thought it was around 6K" I did a little research online and saw various numbers for the weight of the unit and figured it was probably around that number or a little over. The actual weight sticker for the camper was not where it should be and we did not have it available at the time of the purchase (further info on this is lower in this post). The unit looked fairly clean but did need some minor repairs to a few of the seams and windows. $11,750 later and it was ours.

After the purchase I noticed that the tires needed replacing, some additional leaks were found and I have spent quite a bit of time working on the camper to make it solid for us to use. So, I have probably spent an additional $1000 fixing it up.

I am towing using a 2010 Escalade ESV AWD (7800lb towing capacity) and figured the numbers initially looked good (a little higher than I wanted) but it was what the family wanted so I thought I would make it work and we would just pack light.

FFW to last week. We had some issues with the Escalade and long story short we ended with a new (rebuilt) transmission. I think the failure was due to poor maintenance by the previous owner (we have only owned it for about 9 months and it is still under warranty). They stated that it would not retain 5th gear which explains a lot about when I would go down hills with any type of a load (including my pop-up) and it would massively downshift (probably to 4th).

The first time we pulled it I did have tranny temps in the 230 range which I understand isn't a huge deal. However, I was worried about damage when pulling for hours and went ahead and installed a larger tranny cooler. Since then I don't see anything past about 170 when towing so I think I have that under control.

I got curious last weekend and wondered what the weight was so I took it to the closest truck Pilot truck stop.

This is what they said:
Combined weight info (all axles were on the weigh equipment).
Total Gross Weight: 13,760
Steering Axle: 3260
Drive Axle: 4160
Trailer Axle: 6340

Trailer only, WDH was included in this measurement which is probably around 100LBS.
Total Gross Weight: 7220
Tounge weight: 1100 (was resting on the drive axle section of the weighing equipment and the WDH was on this section as well)
Axle weight: 6120

From the vehicle:
GCWR: 14,000
Max Tow: 7800
Tounge: 1100
Front Axle (GAWR): 3600
Rear Axle (GAWR): 4200

So, as you can clearly see I was pretty much at the max for my vehicle. I am planning on shifting some things around and removing some of the weight in the tounge (I had several heavy items in the forward compartment of the trailer that I plan to remove completely.. probably around 200lbs). I am clearly under in max tow, but my combined and the axle weights have made me nervous. The vehicle seems to tow just fine and as I mentioned earlier, the tranny seems happy with its new cooler.

We plan to just use it on short trips mostly down to the lake which is not very far (less than 20 miles). We will probably go up into the mountains of North Georgia and there are some steep grades but it will only be a few times a year. My major concern is our annual trip up north to Iowa, Minnesota, Eastern South Dakota, and Nebraska. Its only once per year but when we go we are traveling a long distance mainly on the interstate but there are some steep hills though Tennessee that we will need to navigate. After that its mostly flat or gently rolling hills.

Before we bought it we went to multiple dealers and they all said that they wouldn't hesitate to max it out. I didn't like this but figured I may be able to get by with that if needed. The camper is much heavier than I originally thought it would be. Since we bought it we found the original weight sticker in a rear cabinet (someone ripped it off and concealed it so we wouldn't find it easily) and it says that it was 6709 when it left the factory. Since then someone added a rubber roof, which I think is probably responsible for a couple of hundred pounds.

The trailer was fairly well loaded and I had of my family members in the car at the time of my measurement. It was really only missing clothes for a family of 6 (and my wife and son which combined are probably around 250lb) Tanks were empty and I don't plan on traveling with anything in the tanks at all.

Thoughts? I would really like to hear from those of you that have done this before. What is the experience and how did you do? Are there any other mods I should be thinking about in this scenario?

Thanks.

An important number I did not see is the GVWR of your tow vehicle. That will add a little more perspective.

[Lins]

Careful if you happen to upgrade your TV and go the 3/4T route. They are limited on payload - especially the diesels - compared to a 1 T but that's a whole other debate. Not a problem with bumper pulls but it becomes a factor if you go the fifth wheel route down the road. I'll stop veering off topic now

[007matman]

Originally Posted by 325BH

An important number I did not see is the GVWR of your tow vehicle. That will add a little more perspective.

GVWR is 7400 from the the tag in the door.

[007matman]

Originally Posted by Lins

Careful if you happen to upgrade your TV and go the 3/4T route. They are limited on payload - especially the diesels - compared to a 1 T but that's a whole other debate. Not a problem with bumper pulls but it becomes a factor if you go the fifth wheel route down the road. I'll stop veering off topic now

Yeah, I've considered that. Probably not in the budget this year to go the 3/4 ton route unless I find a really good deal. I was thinking a LWB 2wd Diesel to maximize fuel economy but it would probably have to be in the 2006 range to fit my budget as a second vehicle. They're really scarse so I don't know if I'll find that.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by 007matman

GVWR is 7400 from the the tag in the door.

So...

Your tow vehicle's GVWR is 7,400 and you are at 7,420 from your numbers on the scale.

When you weighed, was your tow vehicle loaded with everything (passengers, pets, gear, etc.)?

[007matman]

Yeah, pretty much. The trailer was connected for that measurement so I'm pretty sure that's why it appears I'm over. I did one measurement of everything (trailer connected) and another one of just the trailer and hitch (hitch and bars was disconnected and laying on the same pad as the toungue (it wouldn't fit on just one pad).

As I mentioned earlier, I need to add my wife and my son in there yet so maybe 250 for them combined. Otherwise, everyone was in there.

[Lins]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Yeah, I've considered that. Probably not in the budget this year to go the 3/4 ton route unless I find a really good deal. I was thinking a LWB 2wd Diesel to maximize fuel economy but it would probably have to be in the 2006 range to fit my budget as a second vehicle. They're really scarse so I don't know if I'll find that.

I hear you. Just wanted to make sure you're aware of the 3/4T limitations if you ended up going down that road

[007matman]

Originally Posted by Lins

I hear you. Just wanted to make sure you're aware of the 3/4T limitations if you ended up going down that road

Appreciate it. Thanks man.

[VernDiesel]

Check the age of the TT tires. TV has a trailer brake controller? Get a short trip or two in before doing a longer trip.

[Tom48]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Check the age of the TT tires. TV has a trailer brake controller? Get a short trip or two in before doing a longer trip.

Length of trip is not a concern, as I see it. Highway driving near home is just as likely to get you as highway driving a thousand miles away.

I would just want you to handle that rig like walking on eggs. Be especially cautious. Out of control fishtailing and flipping over can happen to any of us during an inattentive moment. Our fault or the other guys which may be beyond our control. It can just happen faster and worse when we are at or near weight limits.

Speed, road surface, weather, braking distances and that big box trying to pass that tow vehicle should be ever present considerations for us always, but especially so near load limits.

[2Evil4U]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Yeah, pretty much. The trailer was connected for that measurement so I'm pretty sure that's why it appears I'm over. I did one measurement of everything (trailer connected) and another one of just the trailer and hitch (hitch and bars was disconnected and laying on the same pad as the toungue (it wouldn't fit on just one pad).

As I mentioned earlier, I need to add my wife and my son in there yet so maybe 250 for them combined. Otherwise, everyone was in there.

Looking at the picture, (though the angle is difficult), it looks like the trailer is a tad nose high and your TV is low in the rear. I'd drop the ball a hole on the shank and crank on the WD bars to better level the TV. This will transfer more weight to the front axle and to the trailer axles and will most likely get you under your 7400 max. (Though you'll probably still exceed it with passengers.)

[quicky06]

If you still need to add 250 of people to the truck your over weight. Your already over payload with out them.

The trailer is also high in the front so I'm assuming thwiegt distribution hitch is not setup right. This may help some but I doubt it.

[007matman]

Originally Posted by 2Evil4U

Looking at the picture, (though the angle is difficult), it looks like the trailer is a tad nose high and your TV is low in the rear. I'd drop the ball a hole on the shank and crank on the WD bars to better level the TV. This will transfer more weight to the front axle and to the trailer axles and will most likely get you under your 7400 max. (Though you'll probably still exceed it with passengers.)

Yeah, that photo was taken right after we picked it up. I was using the old hitch which was the standard bar and chain WDH with maybe like a 4" drop.

I've since upgraded that to a square bar Trunnion hitch and purchased the correct drop shank which turned out to be a 12" drop since the hitch is in the middle of the bumper and not under it like most trucks. It sits level now. I do need to look at the measurements again on the TV because I've just eyeballed it so far. It appears to sit level and have plenty of torsion in the bars so I will double check that before putting more weight on the bars.

[007matman]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Check the age of the TT tires. TV has a trailer brake controller? Get a short trip or two in before doing a longer trip.

First off. Love the handle. That's great!

I have a Tekonsha Prodigy P3 controller and brand new tires on the trailer. The tires on the Escalade are 6 months old and are the same rating as the previous tires.. I don't remember which one off hand but they definitely have more capacity than the trailer does.

Rear brakes on the Escalade are Power Stop Severe Duty rotors and pads. The front needs to be changed here in a bit but I'll put the same thing on the front.

She stops quickly which I was really surprised with. That's a lot of weight to bring to a halt.

I tend to over-do things a bit.. :-)

[007matman]

Originally Posted by quicky06

If you still need to add 250 of people to the truck your over weight. Your already over payload with out them.

The trailer is also high in the front so I'm assuming thwiegt distribution hitch is not setup right. This may help some but I doubt it.

Yeah, it wasn't set up correctly in that picture because there was no adjustment left with that hitch. It is now. See my other reply just a few minutes ago.

I have some things up front in the trailer I can do without.. at least a couple of hundred pounds probably. Hopefully I can eek by under the max a bit. I don't like it at all.. if the PO and I could talk we'd have a few words.

[007matman]

Originally Posted by Tom48

Length of trip is not a concern, as I see it. Highway driving near home is just as likely to get you as highway driving a thousand miles away.

I would just want you to handle that rig like walking on eggs. Be especially cautious. Out of control fishtailing and flipping over can happen to any of us during an inattentive moment. Our fault or the other guys which may be beyond our control. It can just happen faster and worse when we are at or near weight limits.

Speed, road surface, weather, braking distances and that big box trying to pass that tow vehicle should be ever present considerations for us always, but especially so near load limits.

Thanks for your insight. I've been driving really cautiously​ pretending I have an egg between my foot and the pedal. I make some folks mad at me for driving so slow but realized that most of them don't have a clue why.

My family's safely is my priority so I'm going to take it easy.