Cancelled?

[RPF]

So my wife and I have been shopping for a while for a RV that would work for traveling with our growing family and some friends. After looking at quite a few different models we quickly came to the conclusion that a relatively large Class C with bunks would be what would work for us. The bunks on most of the ones we saw seemed like a waste of space for all times other than sleeping... until we ran across a Forest River Sunseeker 3170DS, which had a bunk setup that turned into a couch with a TV. That's more like it! So we found a model that would work for us.

Initially, we looked for used ones, but this floorplan appears to be fairly new and the used options were few and far between not to mention they were fairly pricy compared relative to new units So we decided maybe new would be better. And since we were going new, we could order one with all of the options we want instead of trying to figure out how to add the features on an in-stock model. So off to the Forest River website. There we find that there is also a 3171DS Forester model that comes with most of the options we wanted on the Sunseeker model as basic equipment plus features like nicer ceilings and better lighting.

So we talk to our local dealer (owned by a big concern that does a lot of online factory-direct deals). They said that the Forester line has been cancelled and can no longer be ordered. Uh-oh!

We then decided to talk to another dealer about an hour away that my parents-in-law just bought a Sprinter-chassis RV from. He told us that they had several 2013 model Foresters in stock (just not the 3171 model) and that they were still available to be ordered. He even emailed us the 2013 Forester order sheet (has March 2012 date on it).

So I was wondering if anyone here would know the actual answer to the question regarding the status of the Forester line. Can one still be ordered?

I have some other ordering questions, but I'll post them in the Sunseeker forum since they would apply to both models and that section seems to be more active.

Thanks in advance!

[Terier]

Might be worth calling Forest River directly to see where they stand on this matter. I'm sure other members here will drop by to shed some light on your questions.

Take care.

[bclemens]

It is most certainly NOT cancelled. That dealer may have been canceled because they did not stock the product, but the Forester has been a very good seller and is not going anywhere.

A while back we did some "weeding out". A few customers complained that a dealer had a product listed and when they went there the dealer had nothing in stock. So we weeded those dealers out and signed dealers that would carry adequate stock. Sounds like that dealer is telling half the story.

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by bclemens

It is most certainly NOT cancelled. That dealer may have been canceled because they did not stock the product, but the Forester has been a very good seller and is not going anywhere.

A while back we did some "weeding out". A few customers complained that a dealer had a product listed and when they went there the dealer had nothing in stock. So we weeded those dealers out and signed dealers that would carry adequate stock. Sounds like that dealer is telling half the story.

Hmmmmm another dishonest dealer? Nooooooo say it isn't so.

[bclemens]

Let's just assume its a "mis-informed" sales person for now.

[grayfox]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Let's just assume its a "mis-informed" sales person for now.

Very diplomatic answer. the sign of a true sales management guy. I like it..

[bob34787]

Originally Posted by bclemens

It is most certainly NOT cancelled. That dealer may have been canceled because they did not stock the product, but the Forester has been a very good seller and is not going anywhere.

A while back we did some "weeding out". A few customers complained that a dealer had a product listed and when they went there the dealer had nothing in stock. So we weeded those dealers out and signed dealers that would carry adequate stock. Sounds like that dealer is telling half the story.

I am confused, when I needed warranty work done on a forest river product and the dealer refused, I was told there are no franchised dealers therefore FR could not make a dealer do warranty work. So are you saying that FR now has franchised dealers and does not sell to just any dealer who places an order?

[Triguy]

Originally Posted by bob34787

I am confused, when I needed warranty work done on a forest river product and the dealer refused, I was told there are no franchised dealers therefore FR could not make a dealer do warranty work.

Bob,
So, was the dealer who refused someone you bought from or did not buy from? If you didn't buy; see below on why they can refuse warranty work. If that was your purchasing dealer; than its just a really bad dealer.


Here's my understanding.

bclemens did not say franchise but even if he had "Franchise" is a general business term and subject to whatever agreement they choose. Straight from their literature...

Forest River dealers are "independently owned and operated businesses so priority service and scheduling is at their discretion and is often provided to customers that purchased their unit at that dealership".

Originally Posted by bob34787

So are you saying that FR now has franchised dealers and does not sell to just any dealer who places an order?

Have you ever wondered why FR, Jayco and others will have two lines (Rockwood/Flagstaff) selling the exact same thing except for color? This is so two dealsherships can operate closely to one another. I have a rockwood and a Flagstaff dealer within 10 miles of each other.

[bclemens]

Yes and No.

There are no franchised dealers for Forest River or any RV manufacturer for that matter. One mfg tried and failed miserably at franchising. That does not change the fact that we will not just "sell to any dealer who places and order". The dealer has to be a stocking dealer and approved with our parts and service department. However, by not having a "legal" franchise license in place, the dealer does have the right to refuse service.

In the (10) years I have been in this industry I have only seen it happen one time...and that was more of a ...shall we say "personal" difference between dealer and customer.

There are (3) situations for service that arise.
1. You buy from your local dealer you have an issue locally, you should get excellent service from that dealer.

2. You are traveling and have an issue while out of your local area, most dealers will give you emergency service and get you back on the road as soon as possible.

3. Which I'm guessing is the case. You shopping locally, bought elsewhere and take it local for service. In 99% of these cases the dealer will service the unit, but behind THEIR customers which I think you would want if you bought from that dealer. The one time I have seen this to not be the case, the situation was handled poorly by the retail customer and then compounded by the dealer.

The short answer is: No, we do not have franchise dealers and No, we do not just sell to any dealer that places an order.

[bclemens]

Sorry Triguy, we must have been typing at the same time. And yes...there are multiple lines and you can take a unit for service to any Forest River Dealer. So, if you had a bad run in with a Forest River Dealer, there should be another one right down the road.

[Triguy]

Your answer was better anyway

[bob34787]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Yes and No.

There are no franchised dealers for Forest River or any RV manufacturer for that matter. One mfg tried and failed miserably at franchising. That does not change the fact that we will not just "sell to any dealer who places and order". The dealer has to be a stocking dealer and approved with our parts and service department. However, by not having a "legal" franchise license in place, the dealer does have the right to refuse service.

In the (10) years I have been in this industry I have only seen it happen one time...and that was more of a ...shall we say "personal" difference between dealer and customer.

There are (3) situations for service that arise.
1. You buy from your local dealer you have an issue locally, you should get excellent service from that dealer.

2. You are traveling and have an issue while out of your local area, most dealers will give you emergency service and get you back on the road as soon as possible.

3. Which I'm guessing is the case. You shopping locally, bought elsewhere and take it local for service. In 99% of these cases the dealer will service the unit, but behind THEIR customers which I think you would want if you bought from that dealer. The one time I have seen this to not be the case, the situation was handled poorly by the retail customer and then compounded by the dealer.

The short answer is: No, we do not have franchise dealers and No, we do not just sell to any dealer that places an order.

And your guess under no. 3 would be totally wrong. bought a 36RE touring edition from the dealer less than 1 miles from me, service mgr. had to personally pay for his mistake on my 5th wheel by painting a motorhome next to my coach when it was in for service, cost him over 300 to remove overspray, at that time he said he would no longer service my unit. Of course FR did nothing except make a suggestion that I take it 75 miles for service. They went as far as to inform me that that Dealer has more complaints than any other FR dealer. After 1 year the Dealer called me and offered an olive branch , or so I thought, by giving me a great deal on the 2011 forest river Ridgeview, at this time I wish he had just decided to leave us as we were, enemies. Now I am friends with this dealer and he cannot do enough to try to correct all the defects in my POS. FR took it back to the factory in oct. 2011 and really did a lot of work to it and it held together for a few more 17 mile trips to Disney, but poor design and build quality have reared its head again to the point when the wife found out the new motorhome we were looking at was a FR product she stormed out of the dealer and will not consider FR again.

[bclemens]

Fair enough, it was just a guess. Your situation is very rare. I can't see why someone would refuse service on your unit because they made the mistake of getting overspray on it.

[bob34787]

It seems since he tried to deny it and I had my detail guy , who just polished it the week before , as my witness the service mgr. agreed to pay for it out of his own pocket, he also got rid of the painter. B&E out of Ocala Florida was the shop I was referred to, they said I was the 3rd unit refused by this dealer in as many months. In either case the situation has improved between us and he has sent a few emails to Dan evans and Mike Burns about the defects in all of the ridgeviews he sold and asked FR to buy them back, that did not happen and now I am faced with live with it, trade it or reopen my lemon case. I might add that Mike Burns wanted me to keep him informed on the problems with the Ridgeview and within 3 weeks of getting it back Mike was gone, now nobody seems to care as the warranty period is soon to expire on most of these units.

[bclemens]

The new Mike Burns is April Conner.

[bob34787]

yes thanks, I know, my experience with her is after sending pictures of an A/C vent she sent me the wrong one and my email about current problems have gone unanswered.

[RPF]

Originally Posted by bclemens

It is most certainly NOT cancelled. That dealer may have been canceled because they did not stock the product, but the Forester has been a very good seller and is not going anywhere.

A while back we did some "weeding out". A few customers complained that a dealer had a product listed and when they went there the dealer had nothing in stock. So we weeded those dealers out and signed dealers that would carry adequate stock. Sounds like that dealer is telling half the story.

Thanks bclemens for the update on the status of the Forester line. This is basically what I guessed, given I could find 2013 models in stock at various dealers and that one dealer sent us an order sheet for the 2013 Forester model dated in March. This will make my wife very happy.

So i had a couple more questions about what can be done when ordering one of these units that maybe you or the community could help me with.

1. Chassis Options: I've pulled the Ford window stickers for several of the units we've looked at. They've all seemed to be ordered just like this one. The only options are the V10 engine (99S), Motorhome prep package (47M), Keyless Entry (948) and the factory seats (21A). So pretty basic, with things like an open rear axle and a small 120A alternator. They are lacking several options that we'd want on an RV that we'd be keeping for a decade plus. We'd like to order one with a limited slip axle (XF3), instrument cluster with engine hourmeter and message center (60J), integrated trailer brake controller (534), upfitter switches (52S), 220A alternator (63N), power seat base (90P) plus a few others.
   
   Can FR order a chassis with additional options such as these on a special order? I saw that this practice was available back when the diesel engine was still around and that there are a bunch of blank lines on the order sheet that seem to be there for things like this.
   
   I priced what it cost for the Ford dealer to add this stuff after the fact and it is 4-6X more expensive than just adding them to the chassis when it is built, and some things (like the instrument cluster) would be pretty difficult to add after the fact. In pricing these things I talked to the sales manager at the Ford dealer where I've bought many cars and trucks. He placed the option codes into VOPC (Ford's ordering system) and it resulted in a "clean" build, which means the chassis can be ordered with these options. After that he mentioned that he could order it for me and have it drop-shipped to the coach manufacturer. But I'd imagine that would make paying for/financing the total unit somewhat difficult.
   .
   
2. Interior Materials: Let me first say I haven't seen a Forester in person, only Sunseekers. But on those, the furnishings such as couch and dinette had cloth coverings. We have 4 dogs, a baby and careless friends that will travel with us. So I'm just imagining the smell of dirty dog, stale beer and baby spit-up that will emanate from these after a while. Do I was wondering if anyone knew if the Forester model came with or had as an option some baby-puke-proof (leather, leatherette, etc...) coverings for these areas?

Once again, thanks in advance for all of the great info!

[bclemens]

Our division alone orders over 2000 chassis a year. Ford also forces us to commit to those orders months in advance....so unfortunately we do not do any custom options on the Chassis. They all get ordered the same so there are no surprises.

For 2013 we switched fabrics up a bit. All the Sunseeker & Forester sofas are covered in "ultra leather" (Automotive grade polyurethane). We also cover the dinette seat cushions in that as well. The only fabric is the window treatments and the dinette "back cushions".

[thumper]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Our division alone orders over 2000 chassis a year. Ford also forces us to commit to those orders months in advance....so unfortunately we do not do any custom options on the Chassis. They all get ordered the same so there are no surprises.

For 2013 we switched fabrics up a bit. All the Sunseeker & Forester sofas are covered in "ultra leather" (Automotive grade polyurethane). We also cover the dinette seat cushions in that as well. The only fabric is the window treatments and the dinette "back cushions".

We just sold our our Forester and starting to look around again. What other changes happened to the Forester line for 2013?

We would love a optional lareger skylight in the living area with a rectractable shade to brighten/cheer up the living area. We use to have a truck camper with one and loved it.

Thanks.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by thumper

We just sold our our Forester and starting to look around again. What other changes happened to the Forester line for 2013?

We would love a optional lareger skylight in the living area with a rectractable shade to brighten/cheer up the living area. We use to have a truck camper with one and loved it.

Thanks.

There haven't been a ton of changes for 2013, but we have gone to 12V TV's, built in Nav & iPod dock with bluetooth capabilities. We'll have new floor plans coming out this year as well...but those are still in testing. What year was the one you sold, there have been a TON of changes since 2008.