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Old 02-10-2013, 04:50 PM   #1
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Leaks

Well, maiden voyage, first trip in this new motorhome, and three leaks. Really? I told the dealer the seals on the drivers side slide weren't installed right, now I got wet carpet. Thought these things were leak tested before leaving the factory. A thorough inspection would have found this. If looking at the slide from inside, bottom left had a puddle of water and bottom right carpet was wet. It's getting past both wipers. Also, one of the tall windows in the hall had water in the bottom of it. I'm just about ready to build my own. Will probably make the trip to Indiana as I would like all the seals done correctly, with me there. Or, just take all of them off and do it my way. Never seen seals put on with nails. The tracks are, then the bulb and wiper just loosely snap to that. Barely bump mine and they come off. Off the soap box for now, just very disappointed.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:06 PM   #2
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100% of our units are leak tested in a rain booth and pressure tested (a commercial fan is attached to a false door pressurizing the unit, then a soap solution is sprayed on the vehicle to check for air leaks). If the unit set on the dealer lot for a decent amout of time, it should have been rechecked before retail delivery. Also, we check them on a fairly level surface, so slope can play a factor as well.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:35 PM   #3
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It sat on the lot for about 3 months. Where it's leaking should not have changed any. I'll have to send pictures of the seals and slide box. The whole box is not squared in the hole. This is the same slide we discussed before on the adjustment. The part I adjusted had no effect on the wipers. It's hard to get a good picture, but the water came past the wipers and ran down that white rubber roof material and down the inside of the bottom wiper. Either way, if you see what I see under the slide, I doubt you'd accept it as "good to go", Especially for over $70k. The proof is in the wet floor, and the coach was leveled via 4' level across the floor both ways.

I dealt with similar with tiffin, and how it was done depended on which guy was working on it. After making them redo it a couple of times, the last guy got it spot on. No leaks. Why should an assembly guy put his heart and soul into quality work if he'll probably never see it again, or own one?

Not starting an argument, but this stuff definitely concerns me. I'll let the local guys look at it first, but I do have an appointment at FR for march 25th.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:18 PM   #4
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I just wanted to assure you that we do test everything. Unfortunately these things sometimes still happen (as you noted on your Tiffin). Our service guys are pretty good over there, so hopefully they can get to the root cause and correct it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:53 PM   #5
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In order to try to give you a visual of what I have going on, I attached a few pictures. In regards to what I considered out of square, you can look at the first 4 attachments.

Upper Left Seal - Gap between slide box and opening is so tight I can't slide my fingers in there.

Lower Left Seal - Gap is big enough I can slide just my fingers in barely.

Upper Right Seal - Large gap between slide box and opening that I can get most of my hand through.

Lower Right Seal - Still decent, but tighter than the upper.

Not sure what if anything can be done to correct it. If you look at the wiper across the roof, it looks farely normal. Not sure if the slide box itself is out of square or the cut out is.

On the leak, the last few pictures shows what the upper left seal looked like when I got it and after I repositioned the top wiper to overlap the side one. Even still, there's quite a gap where I'm guessing the water came in and went down to the carpet behind the driver's seat. On the back end, the only thing I can see that I'm not crazy about, is normally that top bulb overlaps the side one. Still can't figure out where that water got in.

Hopefully, the guys there are understanding and patient with me. I'm opting to bring it up there opposed to the dealer as I'm hoping they've seen thousands of these slides and seals, have any parts readily available and can get it fixed as perfect as can be. First impression is the kicker, so I'm hoping it's a good one. A company that will make things right to please a customer gets business over and over from me like Sunnybrook did for years.

This one slideout has been just about my only major aggravation so far. On the inside, the fridge leans out and looks out of square no matter whether the slide is in or out. That's obvious looking down the hallway. Maybe they're all like that, but I haven't looked at another one. Other items are or were simple fixes.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:58 PM   #6
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Frankly the water could be sheeting down the slide sidewall...hitting that bottom piece of trim and riding that in. A bead of caulk or piece of rubber resting on top of that bottom trim piece would dam the water that could be coming in where the rubber seal does not sit perfectly flat at that transition. There is a teeny tiny triangle gap there where the transition is.
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:00 PM   #7
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wow seeing and reading about these type of leak problems
makes me think twice about buying any type of slide out rig

my buddies motor home has a slid out
I was looking to buy it from him last year
the slid out would stick and needed some manpower help
killed that sell
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:43 PM   #8
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I agree mountainman. This is why we have a 2900 without slides being built in the factory right now. We are really looking forward to it. Sales people always say " slides are never a problem" but with all the issues RVs can have, I'm looking forward to reducing as many issues as I can!
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:12 AM   #9
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(most all salespeople)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Gcampers View Post

Sales people always say " slides are never a problem"

yes that is what they (most all salespeople) will tell us
and I must admit
those rigs with the slide outs got lots of room inside
but
I have read about plenty of problems regarding slide outs

my question to the engineers of slidouts would be
have these things truly been perfected ???


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Old 02-13-2013, 09:16 AM   #10
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Nothing is perfect. Houses leak...stuff happens. My question would be, would you not build a house because it may leak?

If you get a leak you have it repaired. So people are going to buy a unit that does not give you maximum living area, may not have as large a resell market, because they "might" have an issue?

At the end of the day "to each his own", but I sort of feel like it's some religious movement. "I have a non slide, so I'm going to convince the world why they should buy a non-slide as well". They take every opportunity to spread the gospel.

The sky is not falling. Are they perfect, no. But as we have discussed on here before...most people come here because they have an issue that needs resolving, so you have a MUCH higher ratio of "problems" to "positives" than you would see in the real world.

I sell to a rental fleet in Canada. They run about 300 Sunseekers and 95% of those are slide models. I think we had 4 warranty claims last year on slides...and these things are getting 60,000 miles in 3 years.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
Nothing is perfect. Houses leak...stuff happens. My question would be, would you not build a house because it may leak?

If you get a leak you have it repaired. So people are going to buy a unit that does not give you maximum living area, may not have as large a resell market, because they "might" have an issue?

At the end of the day "to each his own", but I sort of feel like it's some religious movement. "I have a non slide, so I'm going to convince the world why they should buy a non-slide as well". They take every opportunity to spread the gospel.

The sky is not falling. Are they perfect, no. But as we have discussed on here before...most people come here because they have an issue that needs resolving, so you have a MUCH higher ratio of "problems" to "positives" than you would see in the real world.

I sell to a rental fleet in Canada. They run about 300 Sunseekers and 95% of those are slide models. I think we had 4 warranty claims last year on slides...and these things are getting 60,000 miles in 3 years.


Right - but because they didn't file a claim with you doesn't mean their units aren't leaking and they don't fix them themselves all the time. That's a poor argument.

People build houses all the time - the ones that don't leak are built by crews who are really good at building houses. .... If you really want to take your analogies further we can but it will only get worse for you .
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:32 AM   #12
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:45 AM   #13
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Right. Since 2004 I have flown up every year for a 2 day meeting late fall. We spend (2) days going over ALL the repairs they have done in the previous year. They also fly/drive two shop techs from each of their 6 locations to come and provide feedback/input.

The first day, we spend going over tech suggestions and "customer call reports", so that would include not only warranty claims but also "things they fixed themselves all the time" and even things that aren't broken, but may be difficult for a "new rental user" to understand.

The 2nd day we spend in the shop looking at actual examples, test theories, I take pictures of things they may have fixed themselves and not fixed. We then take that back to the plant so that we can improve the product. Again, I've been doing this every year since 2004.

So I'd be more than happy to take the analogy further. There is no doubt they fix some things and don't file a warranty claim...because it is such a minor repair, it would take longer to file the claim than repair it (which is why we discuss those). My point was that only 4 units were enough of an issue to require a claim. Perfect, no. Sky Falling? I think not.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:45 AM   #14
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OK, how is this helping John get his water issue fixed?

The manufacturer's rep is engaged and we should step back and let them work this out.

You guys are not helping with all these side comments.
This could be as simple as a slide out of rack for one of many reasons.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:28 AM   #15
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Agreed herk - but at the same time as a consumer I find it particularly troubling when the rep immediately responds with an "it's impossible it's not our fault we test everything for leaks" and then the customer posts photos of obvious gaping holes that would never pass a leak test.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:41 AM   #16
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I find it troubling when people put words in my mouth (text in my posts?).

"I just wanted to assure you that we do test everything. Unfortunately these things sometimes still happen" This is an actual quote that I said....you can refer to page one for confirmation of this.

I never said "it was impossible." I never said "its not our fault" so why are you using quotations? I'm guessing if you actually asked BigJohnD, I've been helping him on multiple subjects via post and private message, at no point did I ever deny fault or the existence of a problem.

I'm not sure why you're bitter, but I am right here, helping when I can, please leave me out of your generalizations and assumptions. If you are not clear on something I've said, please ask me for additional information.

People wonder why more reps don't help, more factories aren't involved. I can tell you because some people think its more trouble than its worth....or that there is no help for some people. As is typical for so many things in life...one bad apple ruins it for the bunch.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:59 AM   #17
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bclemens - you have been great - I have found your posts helpful, never overbearing. Between you and jamiller45 (when he was in his previous job) I have been amazed at the factory support in this forum. As the old saying goes, "Illegitimi non carborundum".
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:58 PM   #18
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Look - you said this - you didn't change your time until the customer pressed you and pointed out all the issues again.

You did play the "it's impossible it's not our fault" card and you did it I. Your very first post.

And that's my issue as a customer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
100% of our units are leak tested in a rain booth and pressure tested (a commercial fan is attached to a false door pressurizing the unit, then a soap solution is sprayed on the vehicle to check for air leaks). If the unit set on the dealer lot for a decent amout of time, it should have been rechecked before retail delivery. Also, we check them on a fairly level surface, so slope can play a factor as well.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:08 PM   #19
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Brookside - Can you please just let it lie? I don't recall reading of you having issues with a slide so don't believe you have any skin in the game on this particular post. I think you will find the vast majority of people on this forum (myself included) have found bclemens to be very upfront and going above and beyond the call of duty to help. I think I speak for the group when I say we don't want to ruin the good thing we have going here (I.e., please don't be the bad apple that spoils it for the rest if us).
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by paulmlac View Post
Brookside - Can you please just let it lie? I don't recall reading of you having issues with a slide so don't believe you have any skin in the game on this particular post. I think you will find the vast majority of people on this forum (myself included) have found bclemens to be very upfront and going above and beyond the call of duty to help. I think I speak for the group when I say we don't want to ruin the good thing we have going here (I.e., please don't be the bad apple that spoils it for the rest if us).
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