Lithium Batteries upgrade with Intelli Converter Charger

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

Your system looks great! You know a lot more about this than I do. I was a tin can sailor QM2, no help there. Did take a few courses in Stationary engineering and electrical theory at the local occupational center 30 years ago, but I don’t remember much.
I will probably be upgrading the batteries sometime next year along with the PD4560LiCSV converter. Will hold off on PC Li BIM.

Thanks, after sitting for a couple hours with the Converter turned off, the Lithium Batteries have returned to their normal Full State Of Charge at 13.5V. I just reset my Victron Gauge for a 100% SOC, needed to do that anyway.

Thanks for all the information you provided, I needed to run through the whole thing again anyway for cofidence in the system. You won't regret upgrading to Lithiums, it is much better than Lead Acid. Any questions feel free to ask.

Mike

[Sagecoachdriver]

I spoke at length this morning with Progressive Dynamics about the battery difference of Lithium coach and engine Flood cell on their Lithium converter charger. It is highly discouraged and not recommended to use their Lithium converter charger with a flooded engine battery as the high voltage and current will damage the flooded battery and may be a hazard. They suggested isolating the two. Yes the alternator may be able to charge both, but with no way to regulate the voltage and current, it's not recommended.
So I'm back to disconnecting the engine battery from the BIM and letting the alternator only charge the flooded cell battery. I have a Battery Tender that I can use to keep it charged when not in use. The generator/shoreline power will still charge the coach batteries via the PD4560LICSV Lithium converter charger and the roof top 300 watt solar during dry camping and while driving. Will post after installation and testing.

[JLeising]

BattleBorn claims:
“Will work with traditional lead-acid battery chargers (specilized li-ion chargers will charge faster)”.
and:
“Drop in replacement for lead acid batteries (size is similar to Group 27”.

True? Worth all the changes and expense for a faster charge rate?

[2thdr]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

I spoke at length this morning with Progressive Dynamics about the battery difference of Lithium coach and engine Flood cell on their Lithium converter charger. It is highly discouraged and not recommended to use their Lithium converter charger with a flooded engine battery as the high voltage and current will damage the flooded battery and may be a hazard. They suggested isolating the two. Yes the alternator may be able to charge both, but with no way to regulate the voltage and current, it's not recommended.
So I'm back to disconnecting the engine battery from the BIM and letting the alternator only charge the flooded cell battery. I have a Battery Tender that I can use to keep it charged when not in use. The generator/shoreline power will still charge the coach batteries via the PD4560LICSV Lithium converter charger and the roof top 300 watt solar during dry camping and while driving. Will post after installation and testing.

How do these batteries perform in the cold? In motorcycle applications (big movement towards lithium to save weight), they don't perform well in cold for starting. Some say they will do better after turning on the headlight for a few minutes and then attempting starting. Deep cycle is a different application and just wondering about the cold behavior.

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by 2thdr

How do these batteries perform in the cold? In motorcycle applications (big movement towards lithium to save weight), they don't perform well in cold for starting. Some say they will do better after turning on the headlight for a few minutes and then attempting starting. Deep cycle is a different application and just wondering about the cold behavior.

I have never noticed any problem yet but only been down to mid 20's.

[babock]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

I spoke at length this morning with Progressive Dynamics about the battery difference of Lithium coach and engine Flood cell on their Lithium converter charger. It is highly discouraged and not recommended to use their Lithium converter charger with a flooded engine battery as the high voltage and current will damage the flooded battery and may be a hazard. They suggested isolating the two. Yes the alternator may be able to charge both, but with no way to regulate the voltage and current, it's not recommended.
So I'm back to disconnecting the engine battery from the BIM and letting the alternator only charge the flooded cell battery. I have a Battery Tender that I can use to keep it charged when not in use. The generator/shoreline power will still charge the coach batteries via the PD4560LICSV Lithium converter charger and the roof top 300 watt solar during dry camping and while driving. Will post after installation and testing.

I totally agree. The lithium charger basically stays in bulk the whole time and doesn't have an absorption phase which you really need for a FLA battery.

[2thdr]

Originally Posted by mlmay12

I have never noticed any problem yet but only been down to mid 20's.

Well that's as cold as I would need...I'm thinking the nature of the current draw is much different for an RV house battery vs. a starting battery for an engine and so wouldn't be affected by the cold as much?

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by JLeising

BattleBorn claims:
“Will work with traditional lead-acid battery chargers (specilized li-ion chargers will charge faster)”.
and:
“Drop in replacement for lead acid batteries (size is similar to Group 27”.

True? Worth all the changes and expense for a faster charge rate?

What he is saying is the Progressive Dynamics Converter could damage the vehicle starter battery that is a Sealed Lead Acid when charging it.

My MB Sprinter 3500 Chassis Alternator puts out 220A at 14.2V. The Progressive Dynamics PD4060LICSV Lithium Convertor puts out 60A at 14.4V. The Alternator puts out more current than the Converter so I really don't see a problem. Further the load is divided between the the 3 batteries for the Converter. Also the BCC shuts off the Chassis Battery charge when it reaches 13.62V (At least on my BCC) so I think Progressive Dynamics is just selling their products. They probably don't want you to charge strictly lead acid batteries with their Lithium Converter/Charger which I would agree with.

Maybe I will give them a call and have a talk with them.

[Sagecoachdriver]

Originally Posted by mlmay12

What he is saying is the Progressive Dynamics Converter could damage the vehicle starter battery that is a Sealed Lead Acid when charging it.

My MB Sprinter 3500 Chassis Alternator puts out 220A at 14.2V. The Progressive Dynamics PD4060LICSV Lithium Convertor puts out 60A at 14.4V. The Alternator puts out more current than the Converter so I really don't see a problem. Further the load is divided between the the 3 batteries for the Converter. Also the BCC shuts off the Chassis Battery charge when it reaches 13.62V (At least on my BCC) so I think Progressive Dynamics is just selling their products. They probably don't want you to charge strictly lead acid batteries with their Lithium Converter/Charger which I would agree with.

Maybe I will give them a call and have a talk with them.

I think you are fine by your test results. I called Battle Born today and they said that If I continued to use my PD4560 instead of buying the PD4560LiCSV that all I would have to do is tap the charge wizard to Bulk mode of 14.2-14.4 and it should fully charge. It wouldn't be automatic, I would have to tap the Charge Wizard every time I wanted to fully charge the Lithium coach batteries. But he did confirm I could just isolate the engine battery from the BCC and BIM since I have solar to charge while driving.

Also, he said I could get an additional $50 off each battery. I'm thinking about making the jump even if my coach batteries are still working fine and just take forever to charge.

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

I think you are fine by your test results. I called Battle Born today and they said that If I continued to use my PD4560 instead of buying the PD4560LiCSV that all I would have to do is tap the charge wizard to Bulk mode of 14.2-14.4 and it should fully charge. It wouldn't be automatic, I would have to tap the Charge Wizard every time I wanted to fully charge the Lithium coach batteries. But he did confirm I could just isolate the engine battery from the BCC and BIM since I have solar to charge while driving.

Also, he said I could get an additional $50 off each battery. I'm thinking about making the jump even if my coach batteries are still working fine and just take forever to charge.

I agree with you, I got a veterans discount also. I ran mine with the stock converter for about a month and it seemed to work OK with the addition of my solar. I may isolate the engine battery also. I see no need to charge it with the Converter and it would probably allow my Coach Batteries to charge faster.

[Sagecoachdriver]

Originally Posted by mlmay12

I agree with you, I got a veterans discount also. I ran mine with the stock converter for about a month and it seemed to work OK with the addition of my solar. I may isolate the engine battery also. I see no need to charge it with the Converter and it would probably allow my Coach Batteries to charge faster.

I may order them before New Years. Did you get $50 plus a Veteran's discount?

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

I may order them before New Years. Did you get $50 plus a Veteran's discount?

I got them for $899 each last February.

[Sagecoachdriver]

Originally Posted by mlmay12

I got them for $899 each last February.

Thanks, I want to hold off until my neighbor returns. He finally got his BB batteries in tonight but has to program everything before he leaves for Sacramento and the Oregon coast tomorrow. He won't be back until New years Eve. I want to hear what he has to say.

[mlmay12]

They are definitely a game changer, they extended my power by about 3X and hold above 13V to about 60% SOC. I have run mine down to about 20% on a test run but it took quite a while

[Sagecoachdriver]

Originally Posted by mlmay12

I agree with you, I got a veterans discount also. I ran mine with the stock converter for about a month and it seemed to work OK with the addition of my solar. I may isolate the engine battery also. I see no need to charge it with the Converter and it would probably allow my Coach Batteries to charge faster.

When you ran it for a month on the old converter, did you ever hit the charge wizard boost button or did you just let it run normally without intervention?

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

When you ran it for a month on the old converter, did you ever hit the charge wizard boost button or did you just let it run normally without intervention?

Just let it run normally. My Solar helped to pick up the slack but it definitely charged more slowly especially at the end of charge. I don't remember if it ever charged to 100% but it got to 80% pretty quickly. I had never heard of the boost button, not sure if my 2016 had that.

[Sagecoachdriver]

Originally Posted by mlmay12

Just let it run normally. My Solar helped to pick up the slack but it definitely charged more slowly especially at the end of charge. I don't remember if it ever charged to 100% but it got to 80% pretty quickly. I had never heard of the boost button, not sure if my 2016 had that.

If you had the PD4560 or PD4545, it has a little button in the converter/charge panel box next to the red light. By pushing it in, it cycles thru the modes indicated by the flashing red light sequences.

I think I may just get the BB batteries to start and then add the upgraded Converter charger isolating the engine battery and alternator.

[garbonz]

Wow, lots of stuff here.

One point that is important is the the BB LI batteries and any others for that matter, do not like being held at full charge, especially when not being used. So make sure that you have the ability to shut off charging for each charging source. Also, they do not mind being used and left at partial stares of charge, so letting the sit and work without charging is a good idea.

The progressive chargers for the LI batteries charge to 14.4 volts and stay there, which is a really bad idea. So they are dumb chargers. I have a 60 amp I used initially, but went back to my 9245 conventional charger with a wizard and it is much better.

The best charger would be one that charged to 14.4 and then shut off until the batteries went to 20%. You could do that with a victron monitor and a relay hooked to the progressive LI charger, but I have not tested that.

Better off leaving the stock charger in there and turning it on when needed.

[Sagecoachdriver]

It was my understanding that once the PD charges sees full it charges a little longer then drops to 13.6 to maintain. Am I incorrect?

[babock]

Originally Posted by garbonz

Wow, lots of stuff here.

One point that is important is the the BB LI batteries and any others for that matter, do not like being held at full charge, especially when not being used. So make sure that you have the ability to shut off charging for each charging source. Also, they do not mind being used and left at partial stares of charge, so letting the sit and work without charging is a good idea.

The progressive chargers for the LI batteries charge to 14.4 volts and stay there, which is a really bad idea. So they are dumb chargers. I have a 60 amp I used initially, but went back to my 9245 conventional charger with a wizard and it is much better.

The best charger would be one that charged to 14.4 and then shut off until the batteries went to 20%. You could do that with a victron monitor and a relay hooked to the progressive LI charger, but I have not tested that.

Better off leaving the stock charger in there and turning it on when needed.

The BB has a builtin BMS so it doesn't matter what the voltage the charger is putting out, the BMS keeps the battery from accepting ANY current once it is 100% charged.

Using the non-lithium charger just means it now takes longer to charge your batteries since that charger goes into absorption mode which the lithium version of the PD charger does not do. You just defeated the main reason to use lithiums which is to have a fast charge.