Who's problem is this ?

[USNMM1VETERAN]

Anaro, Thank you very much for the recognition, I really appreciate it. I would like to try another dealer but am sort of stuck. I have my state inspection due on the rv in August, and I can take it to a garage that does rv's but if something is wrong it will be covered by warranty so I would have to take it back anyway, and
Clems rv is the only rv dealer that can do FR warranty work that I know of. They are an 1 1/2 hr drive, takes about 9 gal. of gas ( Lol ) , and the next closest is in Ohio 2 which doesn't help with inspection.

[grumpy0374]

USN, kudo's for your service. I was also USN back in Nam, and a retired cop, 30 years on the job.
I feel for you and the cr-p you have to put up with after spending your good money on what you thought would be your dream rv. Even after the FR member (not representing FR) tried to explain away the problems, and the request was made to drop the bashing and complaints, your problems became worse.
To Mr. Clemens...if this was just an isolated incident, it would be accepted. But, almost every new owner of one of your products, trailer, 5'er, motor home, has posted about problems almost from the time they bought it. Dosen't seem to matter if it's a 7 grand entry level trailer or a 300 grand motor home---your company turns out shoddy products. Unfortunately, most are not associated with the running gear, so it's not an issue that we can complain about to the Highway Safety Admin.
If we could, with the # of complaints you see on this forum, you would be out of business.
I guess I was just one of the "lucky one's" who just had some minor problems, along with my cracked roof. If I had had serious problems like some others, I can assure you I would have started legal proceedings against your company. Maybe that's what it will take for you to acknowledge that your company has to do a better job.
Grumpy

[jevanb]

Welcome to the world of FR, I wanted to drop a tree on my unit but that would get me in trouble. So I just fix everything myself. I have more miles back and forth from the dealer then pulling it to the campground..

[Still Kickin]

Originally Posted by jevanb

Welcome to the world of FR, I wanted to drop a tree on my unit but that would get me in trouble. So I just fix everything myself. I have more miles back and forth from the dealer then pulling it to the campground..

Sorry for your troubles guys, but I would assume the majority of us are quite satisfied with our FR products. To the OP, work with your dealer and document the progress, or lack thereof. Then if necessary, contact FR. I have read many threads at this site, that turned out fine.

[AprilFool]

As someone who has owned RVs made by Thor, Winnebago, Fleetwood, and others and every class other than Class B - I can say that ALL RVs have issues. Some minor, some major. So far our new 3051s issues are all pretty minor to my way to thinking. A couple of water leaks, a sticking entry door, and other things that are fixable. If you were to spend time on any of the other manufacturers forums you would see the same complaints as you see here. Obviously - whether it is an RV, a car, washing machine or a blender - people with complaints are much much more likely to post than are people with no or very minor issues. I'm just saying - look at the big picture.


Shelley

[grumpy0374]

You are correct that just about all the rv manuf. have problems as visit's to their different web sites will show. And, the complaints are just about the same, dealing with workmenship and problems with construction.
But, this is a FR forum, and since there's no where else to voice complaints, it's done here.
Grumpy

[AprilFool]

Grumpy,
I totally understand what you are saying but when you read the FR bashing and the "I'll never buy another FR product because they are the worst of the worst" type of comments - these folks need to understand that it could happen with any make.

MACS USN (Ret)


Shelley

[bclemens]

I have to say grumpy, this is what makes most reps stay away. When a person takes someones words and tries to twist them with a complete disregard for facts.

I never once said to stop complaining (I respectfully challenge you to find where I made that statement). In fact, let me go one step further and paste exactly what I had written in that response....

"So in that same light we do want to hear when things go wrong. We appreciate the feedback and we want to get them corrected. What I am not always thrilled by are the assumptions that go along with it."

To further explain, I was referring to "assuming" that we are ok with things that are wrong. Assuming that someone "saw" the error and willfully let it go so that the customer and/or dealer would catch it so that we could "save some money".

I also have never tried to "explain away" a problem. I simply try to give inside information as to the "how" and "why" we do things. It is why I appreciate comments like AprilFool who says "the water fill was in a bad spot but I'm sure the engineers had a reason" (from memory not direct quote). Even "The water fill is in a bad spot" would have been fine with me. What I take issue with is "The water fill is in a bad spot, I don't understand why the Forest River engineers are incompetent. They must hire them from the local kindergarten because my even my blind uncle knows that that is the stupidest spot for a water fill" (no offense intended any blind uncles). That is the type of statement I was referring to.

Statements like "But, almost every new owner of one of your products...has posted about problems" with absolutely no facts, no access to any statistics that would support a theory like that.

[grumpy0374]

April
What should happen is an effort by FR (I use FR as an example cause that's what we have) to upgrade their workmenship and instill a sense of pride in their workers and the product they turn out. If not, than FR just becomes "just like everyone else" in that you have problems from day one.
As an example, look what happened to HD. Back in the 80's they almost went out of business due to poor design, poor workmenship, and bikes that were not reliable. They got the message when no one would buy their bikes. They turned the company around and look at them now.
Auto industry had their problems and were being run over by the imports until their quality got a lot better.
It would take the same actions on the part of us, the rv consumers, to get quality products for the money we lay out. Unfortunately, probably not going to happen as many "newby's" don't know what to look for or expect, put blinders on and think their buying their dream.
There are several rv manuf. who do turn out really good stuff, and even invite you to their plant to watch your rv being built. And, thats where my next one will be comming from.
Grumpy

[keith_h]

I think what causes the most of problems is FR's seeming lack of interest in getting problems resolved and bucking everything to dealers who frequently admit they can do as they please in regards to warranty work. Not very customer centric or resolution oriented perspective if you ask me.

There are also some very obvious problems that never should have been allowed to leave the factory. These contribute to the dissatisfaction no matter how understanding someone is that things don't always work as planned. As an example, none of the water hoses going to my fresh water tank had the clamps installed properly. They were all hanging in the middle of the hose nowhere near the fittings. The only reason I found it was I had to relocate the tank as it's inlet was 1 1/2" higher than the fill tube on outside of the trailer. If I hadn't had to work on the tank we would have been flooded. The sad part is I am not the only one to run into this type on problem. One would think that QC would catch these types of problems that should never occur. In this case a problem that I could live with finding and even had some empathy due to this being a new model was turned into something that quite frankly ticked me off.

To sum it up, if FR handled defect and complaints better and truly had nationwide warranty support I think a good portion of the bashing would go away. I also think it would help eliminate the bad dealers as people would have more freedom on who they took their RV to for warranty support. As it is today you are at the whim of the dealer on whether they will work on your RV or not.

[grumpy0374]

Mr Clemens, I believe that the OP of that other thread is the one who wanted to end the thread as the bashing was getting to be a bit much.
And at that time he was still thrilled with his new "dream rv".
Look at his posts now, just a few weeks later. He's ready to give it back because of the problems with the rig.
Mr Clemens, what does that tell you. It should raise a red flag warning that something is wrong. Not with the design, or placement of components, but with the building of the thing. You can have the best components available, but if their not assembled properly, by workmen who know what their doing, and CARE about taking that extra minute or two to do a proper job, than you end up with problems.
Grumpy

[GJones]

Ok, I just have to post this now. This forum has been immensely helpful to me. I have learned a ton from folks like Brian, Herk, and Old Coot. I am completely hooked on reading about mods and such even though most of what is said is way over my head. This forum is very valuable to anyone who own an RV or is thinking about buying one. For anyone reading this forum who is thinking about buying a Forest River product, please take these negative comments about quality for what they are. People who post them have had something go wrong with their RV. I get that. But please remember that for every negative post on here, there are many people just like me who have had no problems. I bought a 2014 Sunseeker 3010Ds and have had absolutely zero problems with it. I'm not saying there aren't some problems, but most people like me who have had no problems just don't take the time to post them. Like Turbs said, these things are very expensive houses on wheels and when things move around, things happen. If people don't help to get them resolved, that's a whole different issue. I'm glad people post when they have problems. That way, I will know what can potentially go wrong with my RV and what the solution is to fix them. saying there are systematic problems within FR is a statement based on emotion, not facts. So please, keep posting your problems so Brian, Herk, and OC can solve them and so I may learn in the process. But please don't make the accusation that ALL of these products are inferior.

[grumpy0374]

No, it may not be productive, but it let's us vent our frustration. Threads like this one point out the problems that you would think were few, but in reality have become common. Improper water fittings, improper wiring, leaks, hardware falling off or improperly assembled furniture. If FR were a car company you'd go under due to the # of recalls you would be forced to make. But, you don't fall under the same regulations, so that's a dead end.
It's really ashame. I like my Lexi, but now only because I've gone over it front to back and top to bottom fixing water lines, wiring and connections, replaced slide seals that were improperly applied, and just generally fixing sloppy construction/workmanship.
Where this concerns FR is the other rv'ers we meet who are taken by our rig, and ask about it. Do you think I just bubble over with great things to say
Unfortunately there's no way to tell how many units FR hasen't sold due to "word of mouth".
And, I put this to you---how many of the people on this forum who have had problems like the OP do you think would buy another FR product?
Grumpy

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by bclemens

If I am misquoted again, I would be happy to give my personal email to all of those members on this site that have respectfully brought up complaints so that I may continue to help them when they need and walk away from this site. I am not paid to be here, I am not directed to be here, I am here just as any other member of this site under my own personal choice because I want to learn and to help.

I am never happy when a product defect leaves our building. To make an assumption otherwise and to misrepresent my words is disrespectful to me and my efforts to date.

Originally Posted by bclemens

It tells me he should take it in to his local dealer or seek out assistance here or contact our service and warranty department

Thanks for being here - having FR management on the Forums is a very good thing and I would be saddened were you to leave. I would (if you do so) be happy to swap emails with you.

My contention ever since joining FRF is that it is not so much FR as it is the dealer - although I am sure there is always room for improving QC (one of my "hats" at my agency is continuous improve -Lean Six Sigma - so I do understand the issues with production, tech training and overall QC)

Mr. Clemens, I believe the overall feeling of most of the forum regulars is that the biggest issue FR has at present is dealer receiving inspection, technician and customer service training. Some dealers (mine is a Exemplar) are outstanding and people will drive hours to buy from them. Others (such as out local dealer in Huntsville, AL) are a poster child for a poor dealership with virtually no customer service skills.

Thank you for your (and Wildcat Chris') time on the forums; it is heartening to see that FR Management has a interest here!

Best Regards,

Bob

[USNMM1VETERAN]

Ok my wife and I were total virgins to rv's when we decided to sell our house and go travel the country while I am still mobile enough to do so. I did my due diligence and, I thought, researched as many rv companies as I could. I looked at Winnebago, four winds, coachman, thor, forest river, and some others. We went an rv show in Harrisburg Pa. last August to really look and feel out the unit's and talk to some dealers. This is when we got sold on Forest River, we were told they use superior materials, best service, energy efficient, extremely reliable ( this one important), better company than the others, they were just plain built better rv's than the rest. Well we went home and I again checked out FR and I thought did a thorough job looking for reviews about the rv's. Well did not find this forum and everything I saw lead me to believe that Forest River was better than the rest. Still I was spending a ton of money so when we went we wanted to see a four wind they had on sale for 20k less than the 3051, well the dealers salesman told us that it just wasn't the same quality as the FR unit and you get what you pay for. So if you have 2 30' class C's and one is 20k less then are you are buying a cheaper model? Well since this was going to be our house we choose the 3051S because we, as virgins were told it was a high quality rv made by a high quality company.
Here is the thing , all I read whenever someone has a problem with their FR rv is, " well every other company has the same problems it industry wide". If this is true then what value am I getting for the extra 20k I spent if Forest River is no different than any other company out there? According to most of you veteran poster's on here I would of been just as well off buying a coachman or a four winds ????? That doesn't make sense to me. On one line you say everyone has these problems then on the next you say how great FR is ?!?!?!???
So maybe I am nieve but I still think I bought the best class C out there, I have to believe that I spent 20k more for it and would just feel like a fool and someone who got taken by a shister salesman. Yes this forum is great and having mr. Clemens here helps a lot of people, including me, but I just now have no idea what to think about the rv I bought. Did I buy a quality class C from the best rv manufacturer out there or did I just over pay for a normal class C.

[Weezer]

USNMM1VETERAN,

I have no answers for your problems, but do want to say I thank you for your service.

I do hope your problems are resolved expediently, to your satisfaction, and you and your wife are out enjoying this great nation and our freedom that you sacrificed and served to protect. (The sacrificed portion goes to your wife as well because the families of veterans make sacrifices also.)

[bgilly]

Seems as if the customer line is forming for a company that can build the perfect RV.
Any takers? Certainly a market where there is no competition.

[USNMM1VETERAN]

Thank you we ever and for my wife also. There is a saying that I love and think is the absolute truth, it is; : The toughest job in the Navy is the Navy wife.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by USNMM1VETERAN

Thank you we ever and for my wife also. There is a saying that I love and think is the absolute truth, it is; : The toughest job in the Navy is the Navy wife.

Other than actually dodging bullets, I believe the toughest job in any branch is the spouse and family's sacrifices based on our son's experience. It eventually cost him his marriage of 26 yrs.

[Terier]

This forum was developed for FR owners to come together and help other FR owners. One problem with prolong complaining is that often it takes the focus off the original topic and onto someone else's agenda. The site is lucky to have some Forest River employees as members but we need to remember that this site is not connected to Forest River Inc. so any assistance offered is a bonus.