Adding a circuit breaker to distribution panel

[mlafleur]

Hi,
I'm the owner of 2004 Georgetown I purchased used last spring. Part of the deal included the dealer installing a Splendide washer/dryer, and the only available spot was in the bedroom, next to the distribution panel. By the way, it works like a charm -- if you're not in a hurry, but then we're retired and have all the time.
The problem is that the dealer connected the unit to the (120V) receptable most accessible: in the TV cabinet of the bedroom. So far no problem. Except that it looks as if all receptacles are on the same circtuit, on a 20A breaker. This creates an issue if I try to do a laundry load while using a little heater to keep warm in the living room area, as the circuit breaker trips.
And my question is: can an additional circuit breaker be added to the IDP 30 distibution box. There seems to be room for it, but I'm unsure of the type of breaker required. I would add a circuit for the W/D alone, leaving the other receptacle on the original circuit.
Thanks,
Maurice

[valleyduo]

If you have the space in the box it can be done. A good visual inspection of your current breakers will reveal what brand you need. Should be available from Lowe's or Home Depot. From there it's just basic wiring. If you're not experienced with wiring, it's probably a job best left to someone who is. Improper wiring is a big fire risk.

[cavie]

easy job for a qualified electrician. RV is no different than an a house.

[wmtire]

Just a little more to consider, if your RV is of the 30 amp variety.

Depending on how many amps (related to wattage) of ALL the things you use in total... You could actually go from overloading the individual circuit 20 amp breaker to overloading the RV or pedestals main 30 amp breaker.

You need to figure out the amps/wattage of everything, as running a separate circuit may not solve the problem....but just change which circuit breaker trips.

These links may help:


http://rvservices.koa.com/rvinformat...lectricity.asp


http://rvservices.koa.com/rvinformat...d-amp-draw.asp

[270S]

I assume (know what that means), that if you are asking, that you know what you are doing!!!! If not, get a qualified electrician - none exist in the rv community to my knowledge (commentary).

Back to your original question vs ….

So even if there is no room (spare), an existing CB can be replaced with one that will fit in its slot that consists of 2 skinny cbs. If you look in the pic, I replaced a single 20amp cb with 2 20amp cbs in 1 location. The new 2 skinny cbs are actually 1 cb with that has 2 circuits in 1cb. You need to use the correct wiring size and grounding for the new circuit.

[KyDan]

Originally Posted by 270S

I assume (know what that means), that if you are asking, that you know what you are doing!!!! If not, get a qualified electrician - none exist in the rv community to my knowledge (commentary).

Back to your original question vs ….

So even if there is no room (spare), an existing CB can be replaced with one that will fit in its slot that consists of 2 skinny cbs. If you look in the pic, I replaced a single 20amp cb with 2 20amp cbs in 1 location. The new 2 skinny cbs are actually 1 cb with that has 2 circuits in 1cb. You need to use the correct wiring size and grounding for the new circuit.

What he said ^^^
I'm not familiar with a Georgetown but my last 3 TTs had extra slots. If you do not have an empty slot you can indeed replace an existing breaker with a twin half wide and still get it to work.
Do be careful!!
It will most likely be something like this-- https://www.homedepot.com/p/Connecti...1515/100175182

[formerFR]

a 15/15 tandem/twin breaker is a fine way to save space, and use the same position to power both of these ciruits without needing to add or move any existing breakers.

Chances are, though, you'll still have to consider that you are limited to what you can run at the same time, even if they are on separate circuits, since the limiting factor is then your Main 30amp breaker, though this might give you a little more breathing room.

Heaters are a main source of breaker tripping since they require so many amps compared to other items you plug in. Right now you are tripping a single breaker, but with this new setup you could start tripping the Main breaker, loosing ALL power, not just one circuit.

an easier option would be to just not run both at the same time,
or plug in the heater in a different circuit : )

[Bama Rambler]

According to the manual for the Iota IDP 30 panel "The IDP 30 is listed to accept any standard 1" wide circuit breaker and interchangeable models currently on the market, whether one pole or twin. It is not brand or part number specific."

[mlafleur]

Thanks everyone.

I have 2X50A panels.

I do have one regular slot left open in each distribution panels. On has a 15A breaker, which is tagged to the Water Heater, and 20A tagged one of the A/C units.
The other panel has 4X20A circuits going to the Microwave (Convection) oven, the other A/C unit, all receptacles, and the GFI.
I guess my preferred panel would be the first one because it only has a total of 35A.
Opinions?

[formerFR]

wow, that's a new one on me, if it's a 'true' 50amp RV service double-pole 240v coach.... was it wired this way from the factory?

[cavie]

I'm betting there is a 50 amp main someplace elese. Maybe near the Transfer switch?

Damn MH's always screwing thing up!!

[formerFR]

it's possible, but a true 50amp RV Main Panel uses the same 50amp Double-Pole breaker set as you also see at the park's power Pedestal. Double-pole breakers are 240v, with TWO hot legs, ground, and SHARE the neutral wire, which is why you see 4 wires within the Shore Cord and the 50amp outlet.

While most coaches don't make use of 240v service, they 'split' the load of the two hot legs between two sets of breakers, to balance the 100amp usage within the whole coach, but if either set exceeds 50amps, it will trip BOTH legs of service.

Having two single 50amp Main breakers within a coach is not common, since manufacturers use companies like WFCO and PROGRESSIVE that build single panels to accomplish all the needs of the coach. Mine even has an integrated sub-panel for the separate circuits powered by and thru the Inverter.

[270S]

Originally Posted by cavie

I'm betting there is a 50 amp main someplace elese. Maybe near the Transfer switch?

Damn MH's always screwing thing up!!

Like I said, get a qualified electrician - none exist in the rv community to my knowledge (commentary).

If I "see" the post/pictures/installation correctly, he may just have 2 separate 50 amp panels vs a combined single panel of 2 circuits. Each could still be 120Vac vs 240Vac and you could get 240Vac if you took 1 leg from each, but again that is for a qualified electrician. If the panels are separate vs combined there is no "junction" bar to turn on both "panels" / circuits at the same time. a combined panel uses a bar to prevent customers from themselves not keeping track of which one is on.

Not to complicate maters, but in the marine (professional industry by comparison) industry, each panel's main breaker has a double CB using a bar to cut both the 120Vac hot and neutral wires to 100% isolate the circuit. Overkill, but 100% safety is more important there.

FYI, in case someone cares to know, the other gauges show everything you need to know about each circuit's draw, Wattage(duplicity IMHO), Voltage, amperage, and FREQUENCY!

[formerFR]

what is that BRAND name printed on the panel?

[270S]

Originally Posted by formerFR

what is that BRAND name printed on the panel?

If you are talking about my post, click on image to enlarge and you will see BASS as the company. The two gauges are Blue Seas. They are used in the marine industry. I do not recall seeing either used in RV community aside from users post purchase installs themselves (like me).

[formerFR]

I'm referring to the OP's 50amp panels

[mlafleur]

Hi,

Both my distribution panels are labeled IOTA IDP 30.

As far as I know, there is no 240V service in the rig. Everything is 120V based. There appear to be two 120V lines (red and black in the snake) and one white (neutral) in addition to the green ground of course. And the reason I know is that I had to repair the 50A plug. One night in a state park, it went "poof" and the magic smoke escaped out of the connector. As you all know, these connectors operate on magic smoke, but it has to remain inside the plug. I jury-rigged it for the night, and bought a replacement as soon as I arrived at destination the next day.

Upon more scrutiny the only question I still have to figure out the strain relief system used on those panels. They appear to be L-shaped pieces of plastic that are detached from the back of the panel as you open up a hole to drive your wire.

Thank you everyone for your input, I'll keep you updated once I made the change.


Maurice, under heavy rain in Myrtle Beach SC

[formerFR]

those are clearly 30amp panels, not 50amp double-pole 240v service, as you are plugged into with your Shore Power cord, which you said in 50amp with 4 plugs, as it otherwise would not fit into a 50amp RV outlet otherwise.

This is NOT a common wiring scheme... are you the original owner??

The only way I see this possibly working is that the installer used two panels because they couldn't find a single 50amp unit small enough to fit a specific space, using two 30amp models to accomplish a similar task. You'll have to confirm whether the WHITE neutral wires from both panels are combined, as if they are not, your coach could have issues with unbalanced loads, and/or you might trip ONE of the 50amp breakers and not both at the same time, which is what SHOULD happen in 240v systems, which every 50amp coach is.

Yes, while you don't have items in your coach that run off 240v power, RV 50amp service IS 240v service, giving two 'sides' of 120v 50amp power, just like your power box at your home. Only internal breakers that are double-pole with a common trip handle, that use both 'sides', are 240v circuits, which you don't have, and neither do most of the rest of us. Only larger motorhomes with electric clothes dryers, or similar high-draw appliances, will use the full 240v power.

[formerFR]

Originally Posted by mlafleur

Hi,
I'm the owner of 2004 Georgetown I purchased used last spring..

o.k., so now I KNOW you're not the original owner, and someone prior to you must have 'upgraded' this coach from a 30amp model to a 50amp(100amp) system. If you only have a single roof air conditioner, then you have a coach that was orignally only 30amps. It's also possible that all of these changes were made in order to ADD a second air condtioner.

We know that the Shore Cord is the 50amp(100amp) size and wiring, as you also stated.

Now, do you also have a 50amp(100amp) Auto Transfer Switch?
or do you plug this Shore Cord into a plug somewhere on your RV when you want to use the Generator? If so, is that outlet also a 4-prong type, or is it the 3-wire type, requiring you to use an adapter when running the generator?

It's possible that the previous owner made these upgrades, or had a dealer or shop do it, which is perfectly fine, but it begs to ask the question, though, of why a true 50amp(100amp) 240v service panel was not used. If the Neutrals of both panels are combined, then it's quite possible that it will work fine, EXCEPT for the fact that both 50amp Main Breakers will not trip together, which is required in 240v service. Of course, you could also say that any unbalance would also trip the Shore Pedestal's 50amp double-pole breaker, for the protection it requires.

Let us know what you find out... while everything you have may work fine, it's a different setup and wiring scheme than probably any of us other RVrs have ever seen.

[Bama Rambler]

While it's common to see split bus panels with a double pole breaker, it's not unheard of to see two single bus panels in some services. Especially in services that doesn't have equipment that are powered from both phases. The only requirement to trip both legs is on equipment that is powered by both legs.

The OP's setup will work perfectly fine and it's no problem to add a breaker in the panel of choice.