CHF Review

[Fargo444]

Originally Posted by CheckSix

A "technical service advisor", does not equal an engineer. Engineers are held accountable for durability and safety, amongst other things.

I installed the heavy duty Hellwig front and rear sway bars on my F53 20,500 lb chassis in the 327DS, for $1,100.00 and 5 hours of my labor. Like I said earlier, the front is easy, it is replacing the OE bar. The rear is a hemorrhoid (pun intended). The rear HD bar is an additional sway bar. Front and Rear Hellwig bars were much larger in diameter than the OE bars. IIRC, front was 1-3/4" and the rear was 1-5/8". I didn't caliper the OE bars but they were noticeably smaller.

It reduced side to side roll a bit but it was not a panacea cure.

In my opinion, changing/adding sway bars is the right way to do this. As pointed out earlier, the CHF geometry is wrong and induces a travel limit.

OK thanks.

I just priced the front and rear sway bar kits and included the steering control with mount bracket and the package is only $1749 direct from Roadmaster with free shipping (if UPS can deliver it that is). So depending on labor I might be able to skate through on this for $2000 - 2100. A shop might be able to do the rear in less time? Probably well worth the money.

I might check out the Hellwig too but the Roadmaster bars are probably good too -- chomolly and considerably heavier than stock with heavier bolts and also with urethane bushings.

[funmoneypit]

Well I'll throw my .02 in. I did a ton of research on the CHF. I didn't find one person that had an issue with it except the reference to one person breaking the sway bar link. This has been around since 2010 and many of the earliest to do it have over 50,000 miles on the mod with no issues. So...I did mine 2 1/2 weeks ago. Good thing I got under there as both my rear sway bar bushings were gone. The mounting brackets were there but no bushing. I ordered front and rear poly bushings. I did order the Helwig adjustable links too. Before I removed the factory links, I measured from the top mount to the second hole on the sway bar so I knew exactly how long to adjust the Helwigs to keep the same angle. Mine ended up needing an additional 1 1/2" in length. As a side note, one of my original links was bent. Don't know how but shows stuff can happen with the factory setup.

Before I received the bushings, we had to leave for a scheduled vacation. Michigan to Miami, Florida. It was about 3000 miles round trip. Each way it took me about 24 hours. I drove the 24 hours in a 30 hour span. About 15 hours the first day. Little sleep and the final 9 hours. Before the CHF mod, there is no way I could have driven 15 hours straight. I would have been exhausted. I was certainly tired but it was doable. The worst part was my rear was sore as hell. The CHF definitely made a difference. And that was WITHOUT REAR SWAY BAR BUSHINGS. Can't wait until our next trip to try it out with the new bushings installed.

I look at the twisting of the sway bar differently. If there is more pressure on the bar and the coach is actually rocking back and forth less, doesn't it seem logical that the bar is actually twisting LESS? Think about it.

Another item to think about, if the second holes were actually dangerous to switch to, doesn't it make sense then that Ford/coach manufacturer would not allow them to be there. They are opening themselves up to litigation in my opinion.

Just my .02. I will be driving my coach happily enjoying the better handling that cost me very little.

Camp on!

[Fargo444]

Originally Posted by funmoneypit

Well I'll throw my .02 in. I did a ton of research on the CHF. I didn't find one person that had an issue with it except the reference to one person breaking the sway bar link. This has been around since 2010 and many of the earliest to do it have over 50,000 miles on the mod with no issues. So...I did mine 2 1/2 weeks ago. Good thing I got under there as both my rear sway bar bushings were gone. The mounting brackets were there but no bushing. I ordered front and rear poly bushings. I did order the Helwig adjustable links too. Before I removed the factory links, I measured from the top mount to the second hole on the sway bar so I knew exactly how long to adjust the Helwigs to keep the same angle. Mine ended up needing an additional 1 1/2" in length. As a side note, one of my original links was bent. Don't know how but shows stuff can happen with the factory setup.

Before I received the bushings, we had to leave for a scheduled vacation. Michigan to Miami, Florida. It was about 3000 miles round trip. Each way it took me about 24 hours. I drove the 24 hours in a 30 hour span. About 15 hours the first day. Little sleep and the final 9 hours. Before the CHF mod, there is no way I could have driven 15 hours straight. I would have been exhausted. I was certainly tired but it was doable. The worst part was my rear was sore as hell. The CHF definitely made a difference. And that was WITHOUT REAR SWAY BAR BUSHINGS. Can't wait until our next trip to try it out with the new bushings installed.

I look at the twisting of the sway bar differently. If there is more pressure on the bar and the coach is actually rocking back and forth less, doesn't it seem logical that the bar is actually twisting LESS? Think about it.

Another item to think about, if the second holes were actually dangerous to switch to, doesn't it make sense then that Ford/coach manufacturer would not allow them to be there. They are opening themselves up to litigation in my opinion.

Just my .02. I will be driving my coach happily enjoying the better handling that cost me very little.

Camp on!

Anyone who can drive a motor home for 15 hours in a sitting deserves to be listened to!!

I think that you make some great points. I think this is not a one answer fits all situations and that applies equally to all rigs and all road conditions. If I drove the back unpaved roads and dry camped a lot I might go with complete aftermarket suspension system upgrade. My thinking has change a lot on it over the last two days.

If I am mostly driving on intestate and smooth State roadways the CHF might be the ideal way to go. But I also think I would strongly consider the after market connectors and the urethane bushings all around.

The bar is definitely twisting less in the CHF position. The coach has the same mass regardless of what position it is in. But the sway bar is giving less so that could mean the connectors are forced to accept greater intermittent (or momentary) forces than with the factory setting I.e., using the outer holes? Not sure that is true but it feels true?

I do not know what to think about the opinion that the altered geometry resulting from using the inner holes is a matter of concern. But it could be I guess.

I also agree with your other point -- thousands (?) of the RVs are running around with the CHF and cumulatively perhaps logging maybe millions of miles (?), a lot of miles anyway. If a connector breaking was a very likely event certainly we'd be hearing about it and we are not.

I might still go with the Roadmaster system just because the idea of heavier duty chromolly sway bars and urethane bushings appeals to me. Still pondering.

There is no doubt that Ford put that second set of holes on the sway bar to stiffen the suspension --i.e.,to allow a CHF of some kind. Too bad Ford dd not also issue an guidelines on when and when not to use that inner set of holes! LOL

Thanks for the information!

[BigHomey]

I don't know if all chassis from 2016 and up are the same, but on my 2016, the emergency brake is a drum on the drive shaft in front of the rear differential. When I was installing SumoSprings recently I used the leveling jacks to raise the coach body enough to install the springs (not much). The tires were not off the ground and the rear anti-sway bar WITH the CHF applied was almost touching that drum.

I had done the CHF (front and rear) soon after I bought the coach, but never noticed if the anti-sway bar ever hit the E-brake drum when leveling the coach on an uneven space or not.

The attached picture shows how close it is when the coach is on level concrete. I reversed the CHF on the rear because of this and reversed the front while I was installing the front springs. I did not want to chance the rear bar making contact when hitting a dip/pothole or when leveling.

AL

[Fargo444]

Originally Posted by BigHomey

I don't know if all chassis from 2016 and up are the same, but on my 2016, the emergency brake is a drum on the drive shaft in front of the rear differential. When I was installing SumoSprings recently I used the leveling jacks to raise the coach body enough to install the springs (not much). The tires were not off the ground and the rear anti-sway bar WITH the CHF applied was almost touching that drum.

I had done the CHF (front and rear) soon after I bought the coach, but never noticed if the anti-sway bar ever hit the E-brake drum when leveling the coach on an uneven space or not.

The attached picture shows how close it is when the coach is on level concrete. I reversed the CHF on the rear because of this and reversed the front while I was installing the front springs. I did not want to chance the rear bar making contact when hitting a dip/pothole or when leveling.

AL

Attachment 150348

So now everything is back to stock configuration except the Sumo springs?
How is the handling with that single modification?

I wonder if you could have induced some "static sway" by running the rear duals (alternating sides) up on a blocks to see how that sway bar in the CHF position was performing and if it was a potential problem?

[bubbles]

On the 2012 Georgetown 378 the parking brake drum is on the aft end of the transmission not at the differential. Don't know if or when that might have changed on the Georgetown's.

[Pegii]

I have the same problem. What are my options?

[funmoneypit]

Originally Posted by Pegii

I have the same problem. What are my options?

You have the same problem as what? There are about 25 different references on this thread.

[Pegii]

The sway bar hits the e brake when I tried the chf on my 2016 Georgetown.

[mogman]

Pegii---Don't do the CHF on the rear, just the front. I did mine 4 years ago and it still drives straight and true. But you have to get a truck shop alignment!!

[BigHomey]

Originally Posted by Fargo444

So now everything is back to stock configuration except the Sumo springs?
How is the handling with that single modification?

Here is where I posted about my impression of the SumoSprings.
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...on-143060.html

I wonder if you could have induced some "static sway" by running the rear duals (alternating sides) up on a blocks to see how that sway bar in the CHF position was performing and if it was a potential problem?

On a level surface without being jacked up at all, the sway bar as pictured was too close for comfort for me and as I raised the jacks to create space to install the springs it only got closer to the E-brake drum. I noticed there was already a spot of paint rubbed off of the sway bar right where it would contact the drum, so it had hit at one time.

AL

[BigHomey]

Originally Posted by bubbles

On the 2012 Georgetown 378 the parking brake drum is on the aft end of the transmission not at the differential. Don't know if or when that might have changed on the Georgetown's.

It should have nothing to do with brand of coach, but rather the year of the chassis. It looks like all 2016 and up chassis have the E-brake drum at the rear differential.

AL

[bubbles]

Originally Posted by BigHomey

It should have nothing to do with brand of coach, but rather the year of the chassis. It looks like all 2016 and up chassis have the E-brake drum at the rear differential.

AL

That goes without saying but this is a Georgetown forum and just commenting on such. By the way, it is not an emergency brake. It is a parking brake only and can not be relied upon to function as an emergency brake. That also has nothing to do with brand of coach.

[JimF]

Sure glad we haven't had the handling problems you guys have had or assume you will have. We have a 2011 378 and I added the Safe T Steer, that's it. After talking to Ford I did not do the CHF but actually have never seen a need for it. We tow a toad everywhere and have never had a handling problem. I refer to is as like driving,a sports car, only bigger. It handles great. Luck us.

[tailwind22]

Originally Posted by JimF

Sure glad we haven't had the handling problems you guys have had or assume you will have. We have a 2011 378 and I added the Safe T Steer, that's it. After talking to Ford I did not do the CHF but actually have never seen a need for it. We tow a toad everywhere and have never had a handling problem. I refer to is as like driving,a sports car, only bigger. It handles great. Luck us.

Jim, just trying to sort out your lack of handling issues versus my GT5 31L5. You are longer wheelbase which will help. Are you 19.5" wheels like me or larger? I believe larger wheels/tires are a plus.

[Jean D]

Read this post because the letters CHF caught my attention. Wondered how a trailer got congestive heart failure (CHF). Guess only another nurse would have been really curious about those letters. Sorry to get your thread off line but couldn't resist.

[JimF]

Originally Posted by tailwind22

Jim, just trying to sort out your lack of handling issues versus my GT5 31L5. You are longer wheelbase which will help. Are you 19.5" wheels like me or larger? I believe larger wheels/tires are a plus.

Longer wheel base, 22.5" rims, more weight, towing also stabilizes the unit. Every one talks about changing shocks, mine came with those shocks standard. Our unit also came with an optional extra heavy duty front and rear sway bars. The steering sucked initially but the saf-t-steer took care of that. A real nice driving unit and we have taken it coast to coast over mountains and all for 6 years. Good luck with yours and safe travels.

[Fargo444]

Originally Posted by JimF

Longer wheel base, 22.5" rims, more weight, towing also stabilizes the unit. Every one talks about changing shocks, mine came with those shocks standard. Our unit also came with an optional extra heavy duty front and rear sway bars. The steering sucked initially but the saf-t-steer took care of that. A real nice driving unit and we have taken it coast to coast over mountains and all for 6 years. Good luck with yours and safe travels.

How were you able to determine that you had the "optional extra heavy duty" sway bars? From the coach build sheet or by actually measuring the diameter of the bars -- or some other way?

So do you think these heavier sway bars are an stocked item that can be purchased through a Ford dealer? I had not even heard this factory upgrade option mentioned before. Be worth looking into?

For sure this is the one of the main reason you are not having handling issues like the GTS 31LS?

[JimF]

Originally Posted by Fargo444

How were you able to determine that you had the "optional extra heavy duty" sway bars? From the coach build sheet or by actually measuring the diameter of the bars -- or some other way?

So do you think these heavier sway bars are an stocked item that can be purchased through a Ford dealer? I had not even heard this factory upgrade option mentioned before. Be worth looking into?

For sure this is the one of the main reason you are not having handling issues like the GTS 31LS?

The sway bars were listed as an option on the window sticker sheet when we purchased the unit. Also, I had a bracket for the rear sway bar break when we were in Dallas, as we were under warranty I called the area Ford Manufacturer Rep and he authorized repair at a local Ford truck center. I took it in there and they said they couldn't fix it as the sway bars were "after market" so I crawled under the unit with their mechanic and he measured the bar and compared it with the factory F53 bar, it was about 3/8" bigger in diameter. I made my own mounting bracket, no problems since. That's been 5 years.

Is that option available now, have no idea, my unit was "born on date" October 2010. I ordered every available option at the time. Hope that answers your question.
Safe Travels.

[Fargo444]

Originally Posted by JimF

The sway bars were listed as an option on the window sticker sheet when we purchased the unit. Also, I had a bracket for the rear sway bar break when we were in Dallas, as we were under warranty I called the area Ford Manufacturer Rep and he authorized repair at a local Ford truck center. I took it in there and they said they couldn't fix it as the sway bars were "after market" so I crawled under the unit with their mechanic and he measured the bar and compared it with the factory F53 bar, it was about 3/8" bigger in diameter. I made my own mounting bracket, no problems since. That's been 5 years.

Is that option available now, have no idea, my unit was "born on date" October 2010. I ordered every available option at the time. Hope that answers your question.
Safe Travels.

OK Thanks.

I checked it out with the local Ford dealership here and they list only one option for both the front and rear anti-sway bar on the F-53 chassis:

Front: 5U9Z5482AA for $130 and Rear: GU925A772A for $43

Those are the prices for just the bars themselves --i.e., no mounting hardware included.

So if Ford ever did stock upgraded anti-sway bars they no longer do so?

Maybe like you imply the upgrade on your coach was an item was added by Forest River so maybe they carry heavy duty anti-sway bars for some models?