Considering upgrading from a FR3 to a Georgetown

[Vince and Charlette]

I have to agree that the coach is outstanding. DW says it could use more storage but with two bathrooms, two bunks, (+1 pull-down over the driver) king-size bed, and residential refrigerator, it's luxury on wheels. All my complaints and problems have to do with the Ford F53: lack of power, noise and far above all - sway!

[z3406]

I was a very satasified 2015 FR3 30DS owner. The FR3 experience was mostly trouble free and enjoyable. We deceided to upgrade for two reason. 1. The floorplan has a choke point between the galley and bedroom that while livable could be improved. 2. A dealer here offered us on trade what we originally paid as the trade in value. We wanted a bath and a half floorplan and switched to a Bounder 35K. If the new Georgetown 369DS has been available we very likely would have gone that way the floor plans are clones of each other. The earlier mention of 5000 rpm downshifts happened with both the FR3 and now the Bounder. It is caused by the way Ford has the transmission programmed. In cruise the transmission downshifts from 5th to 3rd gear bypassing 4th, 2200 rpm to 5000 something rpm. The cure is to purchase the 5 Star tune, I have done the tune to the Bounder and the situation is greatly improved. There are a lot of discussions of the 5 Star over at the IRV2 forums.

[fdp]

Thank you z3406. Your experiences are helpful

[Vince and Charlette]

Z3406 - You, like me, are in a minority who have said their F53 has a problem jumping too quickly to 5,000 rpm. Thanks for your explanation. Now, what I've been experiencing makes sense. I see 5k much to often. And just holding 55mph on a medium hill means staying at 5k all the way to the top. I would jump on the 5 Star tune tomorrow, but don't you think it would void the warranty?

[z3406]

If the dealer finds 5 star on the coach yes it is possible you could lose your warranty. However it is quite easy to uninstall the 5 star and reinstall the original program. Part of the 5 star install process is backing up your stock programming. If you do deceide to try the 5 star tell them you are on the irv2 forum and they will give you a discount. I did the Cheap Handling Fix on my FR3 and it made a world of difference in the sway and drivability of the coach. The Bounder has the 22.5 in wheels and the improvement over the drivability of the FR3 is very pronounced, there are quite a few factors involved in drivability but the Bounder drives lightyears better than the FR3 did.

[BillMFl]

I think you will find most Georgetown owners are very happy the first few years. They get a lot of bang for the buck. As time goes by (3 to 4 years) quality problems become an issue. Roof leaks, furniture fabric, steps, hydraulic systems to name a few.

[sherman12]

What kind of roads are you folks driving on and what speed that you are constantly tacking 5K rpms? Just got back from Cooperstown, NY and Rt. 28 into town has a couple of 9% grades, one from a standing start if you get caught at the traffic light. Maintained 40mph up at 4600rpm's towing wife's RAV4 on a dolly.

[Vince and Charlette]

First of all, I'm one of those unusual folks who drives at or below the posted speed limit on the highways and even in town. (We just don't drive over 65 even if posted is higher.) On the interstate as well as state highways, the engine kicks up to 5K at the drop of the hat. I'm not the only one. Other threads have reported similar events. One even jokingly said his kicked up to 5K when going over speed bumps. Just yesterday, while on cruise control, I was doing 65 in a 70 speed zone. The speed began to drop just a bit, and the engine fired up to just under 5K to catch back up to 65. By the way, this was on level ground.

[sherman12]

Vince and Char, that is exactly why I and others on this post don't use cruise control. No wonder you guys are spiking 5000rpm! I find it a nuisance to use because of that. The good 'ol V10 just does not have the HP or torque to readily maintain speeds when confronted with the slightest of inclines. But I do think that the V10 is an incredible engine to move my 18K pound rig plus tow as well as it does and proved again on the Cooperstown 9% grade. I think cruise has become one of the worst vehicle inventions out there because so many people don't know how to use it. Every drive down the highway and everyone is bunched up at the same speed, no one wanting to make a move and perhaps go 2mph faster to create some separation from the pack? Or you pass someone in your rig, move back into the right lane only for the passed car to slowly crawl back in front of you and pull in 10ft. off your front bumper. Coming home from my trip last week I had this brand new orange Nissan Murano do that to me for about 50 miles. I was "driving" my motor home and he was just sitting on cruise at 70. Back and forth until finally I made a determined effort to hold at 71-72. Finally, never saw the Murano again. In my daily driver commuting all over WNY State I use my cruise constantly to avoid speeding, setting it as low as 30 in a 30 zone. Howeve, I have enough driving sense to know when to hit the gas a little, or to brake a little and not let the cruise do the driving for me.

[Vince and Charlette]

OK. Delete the word "cruise control" in my statement, and all the information remains the same. Even if cruise control was the blame, it should have dropped to 4th and not 3rd. Here's a good example: Three months ago, I drove through the Jellico mountains near KY/TN border (really just big hills). Even after getting up a head of speed, we dropped to 40mph and RPM remained at around 5K for the next quarter of an hour except for a few level or downhill stretches. Read Z3406 on this thread, he not only experiences similar performance but appears to have had significant success with the 5-Star Tune. He further states that the Ford transmission is programmed to downshift from 5th to 3rd bypassing 4th. This is supported by the Star Tuning Web site which states, "On the 3v V10’s (5R110W transmission), the Ford Strategy is to NOT use all 5 gears in the Torq Shift transmission... In non-tow/haul modes Ford uses only 4 gears when going up through the gearbox". Go to the Star Tuning site to see some excellent rpm/torque/vehicle speed comparison graphics Got a 2006-2015 V10 RV ? - 5 Star Tuning . Of course in the tow/haul mode, which I enjoy in hills and mountains, the upshift is delayed to take advantage of the added torque at the higher rpm. (I don't mean to lecture...this is for others, not you, who may not understand why the "tow/haul" statement is included in Star Tuning's description of shifting range.) All this aside, we really like our 2015 GT, just wish we could get it "chipped" without the warranty hit.

[sherman12]

Vince, ok got you with all the 5 Star info. Also agree that the Ford downshifts to 3rd skipping 4th. I 've wondered that my self. Also though if the rig is in OD and your slowly losing speed at 27-2800 rpm why you can't add a little more throttle, aka power to say 3500-3800 rpm instead of the downshift. In regards to your trip through the Jellico mtns , would that be Rt. 75 or 71? Drove from WNY last September that way to Atlanta last year and I had no problem maintaining speed about 70 and I don't think I tacked more than 4100 rpm for any given hill climb. I think my rig is smaller at 34.5ft than yours so I would guess it is lighter too.

[HappyGuy]

I installed dynamat extreme and dynapad in my Forester 3011 DSF over the winter and it cut the road noise down to the point that I could hear the wind noise whistling around my side door instead of the engine and road noise. The floor temp in the cab stays nearly the same as the floor temp in the coach.

In 2013 Ford added a caching mechanism that saves the state of the CPU to a secondary location that cannot be cleared. This allows them to revert a patch but also sends up a big red flag when a tune is installed. The record of the tune is cached for all to see. You aren't going to pull one over on a dealership by reverting to the stock tune and if you have drivetrain warranty work you can bet that any tune that was on the vehicle will be looked at very closely.

[Vince and Charlette]

Good discussion. I suspect our weight difference could be part of the issue. My 2015 364TS GVWR is 22,000 and I tow a 4300lb (empty) Jeep Liberty. (In the previous scenario, we were on I-75.) A significant added problem is torque "decay". Once you start losing speed, it takes X amount of ft/lbs torque to stop the speed reduction (decay), and an additional amount of torque to attempt to gain back any of the lost speed...thus the 5K rpm. Ordinarily, increasing speed on flat ground should only take a moderate increase in rpm, but a hill accelerates the need for added rpm. Of course, on flat ground, a "lead foot" can have the same effect. IMHO, on a hill, there are two choices: kick it up to 5K or live with the slower speed. Thank you for the great exchange of ideas.

[HappyGuy]

The 3V V10 torque peaks at 4200 and drops off by about 30 lbft by the time you hit 5000. With these heavy rigs the added horsepower of about 30 hp just won't make up the difference. It isn't enough to overcome the wind resistance and weight when compared to operating at 4200 RPM and you're burning more gas.

[Vince and Charlette]

HappyGuy, - How then do I stay at or below the 4200rpm peak torque point on a hill/mountain?