Georgetown house batteries option

[kenandterry]

My house batteries are two 12 volt wet cell batteries located underneath the steps going into the rig, and if yours are like mine, almost impossible to see into to inspect or fill with distilled water to the correct level.

We don't dry camp very much at all.

Anyone else just replaced them with maintenance free or sealed batteries like under the hood of most cars of comparable amperage size?

Technically ok to do or cost effective?

[ScottBrownstein]

Sure. You can replace them with sealed, deep cycle lead acid batteries. Should be no problem. Lots available at reasonable prices. Then you can forget about monitoring the electrolyte levels.

[360true]

We have four in the same location. Front ones are right to see, the back to are hidden by a bulk of wires. As someone on this forum once suggested, use a wooden broom stick to lift the wires and access is ok. Not optimal but ok.

[bubbles]

If you seldom dry camp the more expensive deep cycle batteries are not a requirement (maintenance free or not). I don't dry camp and it has not been an issue for me for 4 years without deep cycle batteries in my GT378.

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by bubbles

If you seldom dry camp the more expensive deep cycle batteries are not a requirement. I don't dry camp and it has not been an issue for me for 4 years without deep cycle batteries in my GT378.

I agree, it is absolutely true that you don't need expensive deep cycle batteries. I would recommend cheap deep cycle batteries for your use. Not boondocking "very much at all" is not enough. If you even consider replacing more than one battery it would not be reasonable to use starting batteries. The price difference between starting and deep cycle is really not that big and remember you should look at a standard starting battery as a much smaller unit than the equivalent sized deep cycle unit. Save your money and get smaller deep cycle units.

[BillMFl]

Last summer I bought two deep cycle sealed AGM batteries from Sam's Club up in Maine. They were group 24 and cost about $120 each. In addition to being sealed, AGMs can withstand more deep discharge events than lead acid sealed or not. They have worked very well for me.

[twoclaws]

Checking those batteries is a pain. After 2 1/2 yrs my buddy suggested I buy a cheap inspection camera from Harbor Freight. I did so for about $65. It made checking and filling the batteries easier than using a mirror and flash light. Not a perfect solution but easier on the neck and back and more accurate Took some use at first and to realized to differentiate between the densities of liquids to identify when cell was near full. It has a 32 inch fiber and lighted extension and a 3 inch sq monitor. Again not perfect. Just a thought!

[camaraderie]

1. Dual Purpose batteries are just fine for THIS application.
2. There are NO Wet Cell SEALED Deep Cycle batteries. Only Dual purpose wet cell sealed.
3. The only deep cycle SEALED batteries are SOME of the AGM's (absorbed glass matt batteries). Most claimed AGM deep cycles have plate thickness similar to dual purpose batts but do offer the OTHER benefits of AGM which DO NOT include greater cycle life. Cycle life under TEST conditions is about 10% less for AGM's ... but many people get better than this because they abuse their wet cells in real life.

Anyway...in summary for the OP....yeah...buy some cheap dual purpose sealed batteries and you'll be just fine!

[BillMFl]

AGM's do not have lead plates. They have glass mats and gel. The 8D Agm's in my Trawler are 8 years old and still going strong. They are in fact much less likely to suffer damage due to deep discharge. Lead acid batteries accumulate sulfation from deep discharge and their plates are more susceptible to damage from vibration which can be very substantial when plowing through heavy seas. Obviously RVs don't plow thru heavy seas haha. The cheapest lead acid batteries have the thinnest plates to provide a big initial surge for starting power but they don't do well with frequent deep discharging. The dual purpose sealed are a good compromise unless you do a lot of boon docking. The true deep cycle batteries are available at Marine Stores and they are much more expensive and very heavy. I have used them in my Flats boat for the trolling motor and they do a good job. When it comes to battery performance, you get what you pay for. The best don't come cheap. But even cheap batteries do fine under light conditions. But let them get too dry or totally discharged and they will often fail.

[camaraderie]

Originally Posted by BillMFl

AGM's do not have lead plates. They have glass mats and gel. The 8D Agm's in my Trawler are 8 years old and still going strong. They are in fact much less likely to suffer damage due to deep discharge. Lead acid batteries accumulate sulfation from deep discharge and their plates are more susceptible to damage from vibration which can be very substantial when plowing through heavy seas. Obviously RVs don't plow thru heavy seas haha. The cheapest lead acid batteries have the thinnest plates to provide a big initial surge for starting power but they don't do well with frequent deep discharging. The dual purpose sealed are a good compromise unless you do a lot of boon docking. The true deep cycle batteries are available at Marine Stores and they are much more expensive and very heavy. I have used them in my Flats boat for the trolling motor and they do a good job. When it comes to battery performance, you get what you pay for. The best don't come cheap. But even cheap batteries do fine under light conditions. But let them get too dry or totally discharged and they will often fail.

Ummm...they do have lead or lead composite plates just as wet cells do. The difference is that the ABSORBED GLASS MAT takes the place of the Dilute H2So4 solution and holds it in suspension in a fiberglass mat.
The very BEST performing AGMS have Thin Plate PURE lead plates which provide both high current AND deep cycle deep discharge without damage to 80% and if cycled to a normal 50% provide deep cycle life comparable to thick paste plate deep cycle AGM's. (Odyssey) They also may be bulk charged at 100% C i.e. 100 amps into a 100 amp hour battery unlike conventional AGM's which should normally be charged at 25-50% of C.

AGM's are not more rugged than a well designed deep cycle wet battery. EQ built in cycles in modern. Most AGMs are dual purpose and NOT ruggedly constructed so one has to be careful to get a true deep cycle and not one which is simply labled deep cycle. AGM's ARE subject to sulfation and are MORE sensitive to needing to be FULLY recharged than wet cells since they cannot be EQ'd if they do become sulfated. They are also more sensitive to charging temperatures since and should be controlled by a temperture cutoff on the charging system not to exceed 120 degrees surface temperature.

Lest you think I am down on AGM's...I owned a bank of 4 8d's with a 135amp Xantrex charger and monitor system in a full time liveaboard situation at SEA ...with solar, wind and an 8kw genny providing charging duties and was well pleased with my results over 6 years.
I just think they are economically justified only in liveaboard situations where daily cycling requires both cycling AND recharging by external sources, long storage in cold weather situations due to 1/10th the seld discharge of lead acid batts...and in situations where it is desireable to charge in as fast a time as possible ...with investments in charger and sources as well. (i.e. when you want to get off the boat in 2 hours instead of 4 and aGMS can be charged twice as fast or more. )
Of course they are also convenient and no maintenance and some are willing to pay twice the price of regular deep cycles for that alone.
I write above simply to correct the errors of fact about AGM's.

[BillMFl]

I agree that a high quality lead acid true deep cycle with heavy plates is virtually equal to a high quality AGM. And both are way more expensive than the batteries supplied with a new MH. But based on my personal experience over many years AGMs have given me the best overall performance for the long term. My Trawler was typically hauled out for the winter with the AGMs disconnected for 6 or 7 months and subjected to frequent sub zero temps during the coldest months. Hard to beat their durability.

[camaraderie]

Originally Posted by BillMFl

I agree that a high quality lead acid true deep cycle with heavy plates is virtually equal to a high quality AGM. And both are way more expensive than the batteries supplied with a new MH. But based on my personal experience over many years AGMs have given me the best overall performance for the long term. My Trawler was typically hauled out for the winter with the AGMs disconnected for 6 or 7 months and subjected to frequent sub zero temps during the coldest months. Hard to beat their durability.

That's my point...agreed....if the circumstances are right they make perfect ECONOMIC sense...they are not a good choice for the way most people RV economically. There are really 5 choices:
Wet cell dual purpose... fine if you don't boondock and don't mind adding water.
Wet cell dual purpose SEALED...better if you aren't good about adding water
AGM dual purpose...ditto AND beter for long term storage. Twice as expensive.

Then if you boondock:
True deep cycle wet cells...in 12 or 6 volt...rugged and reliable but require attention and cannot be charged at over 25% of amp hour rating.
True deep cycle AGM's ... Best for fast charging (with a properly sized charging system...best for long term storage especially in cold climates... best for low maintenance & high current applications...most expensive and generally will not pay off extra cost unless cycled regularly as in living aboard. Sensitive to charging fully.

Hopefully this will allow others to consider their own situations and what makes sense for them. Thanks!

[DBsRedVett]

We replaced with AGM's all the way around after 6 months. My husband said real pain in the A-- and could not see me putting water in when I was on the road by my self. We have a Georgetown XL 2013, have not looked at in a few years

[pmsherman]

The batteries in my 2011 Grorgetown 327 aren't under the steps but are located where it's almost impossible to check the water level in them. An inspection camera would work but I decided to adopt a different solution.

You can purchase auto fill replacement caps for your batteries. These replace the original caps and are hooked together with tubing making a multi drop delivery system for refilling them. These caps have an automatic shutoff that prevents overfilling and use a small hand pump that makes it simple to refill all of the cells without examining the electrolyte level in each one. When filling, the pump source line is inserted into a bottle of distilled water and a few squeezes of the pump takes care of everything.

Phil

[kenandterry]

Phil....

What brand of multi fill battery system do you have?
Where did you purchase them?
Price?

Thanks

[Gohawks]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

That's my point...agreed....if the circumstances are right they make perfect ECONOMIC sense...they are not a good choice for the way most people RV economically. There are really 5 choices:
Wet cell dual purpose... fine if you don't boondock and don't mind adding water.
Wet cell dual purpose SEALED...better if you aren't good about adding water
AGM dual purpose...ditto AND beter for long term storage. Twice as expensive.

Then if you boondock:
True deep cycle wet cells...in 12 or 6 volt...rugged and reliable but require attention and cannot be charged at over 25% of amp hour rating.
True deep cycle AGM's ... Best for fast charging (with a properly sized charging system...best for long term storage especially in cold climates... best for low maintenance & high current applications...most expensive and generally will not pay off extra cost unless cycled regularly as in living aboard. Sensitive to charging fully.

Hopefully this will allow others to consider their own situations and what makes sense for them. Thanks!

Very helpful. Thanks.

[DBsRedVett]

I show and train border collies and aussies in agility, so I do lots of traveling, I have my coach full served twice a year in Florida, once a month my husband checks things out, former mechanic before Law. I had my changed down at RV World in Lakeland, Florida, not far from sisters house, believe he paid about $1700.00 - 1900.00 total for all of them

[CaptainJustice]

Originally Posted by kenandterry

Phil....

What brand of multi fill battery system do you have?
Where did you purchase them?
Price?

Thanks

Phil hasn't seen this yet so I'll jump in.
https://flow-rite.com/ which I bought from Home at the FMCA rally in Chandler, AZ recently.

[pmsherman]

Originally Posted by CaptainJustice

Phil hasn't seen this yet so I'll jump in.
https://flow-rite.com/ which I bought from Home at the FMCA rally in Chandler, AZ recently.

I purchased mine from a vendor at the Frog International rally this past August. Unfortunately, the receipt is in my RV and I'm now home, an hour away from it. I bought them even though I didn't have 6V batteries yet because I knew that I'd be changing them out sometime later in the year. I ended up replacing the batteries at a Costco in Tucson. The staff there even loaned me the special carrier strap I needed to pick up the batteries and put them into the battery box.

One caution about using golf cart batteries. The connection posts on the GC batteries are shorter than the ones on 12V units. I have enough wires to connect to the + post that the 6V threaded post was too short to hold all of them. My solution was to install a battery disconnect switch on the + side. I could use whatever length bolt I needed to hold all of the wires to it.

Phil

[tjvpga]

I need to replace the house batteries. Having never done this before, is there anything I need to shut off or do before I remove the old ones? My concern is that Lippert system and that control module. Thanks for any info.