Hydraulic Horrors!

[VinceU]

Yesterday morning in prep for a 1 week trip, started the engine in the FR 378TS. When engine warmed, started the jack system and when settled pressed "retract all jacks". Thats when the horror fun started. The jacks started up and suddenly within a few seconds all jacks reversed and deployed to full height! All wheels are now off the ground. Two front slides would not operate from the out position. The bedroom slide did come in but would not go out again. Tried numerous steps to get the system operable, note the pump would run but nothing would happen. System oil level was fine and parking break was on. I spoke with 3 RV shops in the vicinity, and no one heard of this problem. Tried opening the emergency valves 1-7 and applied drill still nothing. Called Lippert and my dealer from the begining. Lippert never responded until.....
4:30 PM one of Lipperts Engineers Gary called me back and in short I had the wrong books from FR, the system fitted is newer and on the net, even still the proplem was not i the book. Gary had me pull the lead from the reversible solonoid on the side of the manifold. Then operated the jack system and magically jacks retracted on their own! Closed all slides with a combo of wire on, wire off.

Today opened all slides ok, later attemped to start engine to move unit just a few inches and the right side slideout retracted.on its own and the jack alarm went off and indicated jacks down! (they weren't)

Gary yesterday told me its probably a diode in the black/white wire leads to the Rev/sol. I think all the electronics in this system are suspect, they better find a more reliable sub for this duty...........

Any experience or ideas welcome, thanks

[cfsoistman]

Wow that's a frightening thing. Is Lippert going to send any replacement parts or anything for your dealer to address this? What year is your coach? Still in warranty? Hopefully you never have this occur again but it sure would be nice to know what exactly happened and that it's fixed properly. Best of luck and let us know what's up next.

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by cfsoistman

Wow that's a frightening thing. Is Lippert going to send any replacement parts or anything for your dealer to address this? What year is your coach? Still in warranty? Hopefully you never have this occur again but it sure would be nice to know what exactly happened and that it's fixed properly. Best of luck and let us know what's up next.

Thanks for the response, I reached my Dealer about the problem and called Gary Twice today at Lippert, not avail. I'll be here until Monday, after I get everything in, I'm thinking of disconnecting the main power supply to prevent the "computer" on issuing dumb commands.

[pmsherman]

I ran into this problem with my 2011 327 Georgetown on the second trip we took last year. You ended up with a better experience, being able to get someone from Lippert who knew how to change the state of the relay. I retrieved the full manual from the web and found that there was no reference to that relay in the manual. The Lippert tech I was able to reach on a Sunday couldn't find one of their hydraulic techs that evening. I ended up opening up the quick flush and individual jack valves and used a 2x4 as a lever to push the jacks back up. An additional problem was that the motor burned out when this happened.

When I returned the unit to the dealer for repairs, they immediately ordered a new motor. It took 6 weeks to get it because the guy who took the order (at Lippert?) never entered it into their system and quit that day. Of course, his replacement knew nothing about the ordered part.

Two weeks after the drop-off, I was at the dealer and discovered that the house batteries were dead. I spoke to the dealer's tech who would be doing the repair and got the comment; "Oh no, three weeks ago I had to make a service call at the other end of the state for the same problem." He then explained that there was a diode in the wiring harness that could short out and would lock the hydraulic unit in the "push the jacks down" mode. The only way to retract the jacks once this happens is to pull the wire on the relay located on the side of the hydraulic unit, exactly what you were told. He checked my unit and found the stuck relay and shorted diode. Unfortunately, the power for this circuit does not go through the battery disconnect relay so it'll drain the battery even after you've hit the disconnect switch.

When they were inspecting the hydraulic system when this happened, they also discovered that I had one of the units with bad hydraulic return hoses. With less than six month's ownership, the return lines were badly bubbled. Replacement lines were ordered and installed.

The jack system has been working properly since the repairs were completed. Fortunately, all of this happened during the factory warranty period.

Phil

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by pmsherman

I ran into this problem with my 2011 327 Georgetown on the second trip we took last year. You ended up with a better experience, being able to get someone from Lippert who knew how to change the state of the relay. I retrieved the full manual from the web and found that there was no reference to that relay in the manual. The Lippert tech I was able to reach on a Sunday couldn't find one of their hydraulic techs that evening. I ended up opening up the quick flush and individual jack valves and used a 2x4 as a lever to push the jacks back up. An additional problem was that the motor burned out when this happened.

When I returned the unit to the dealer for repairs, they immediately ordered a new motor. It took 6 weeks to get it because the guy who took the order (at Lippert?) never entered it into their system and quit that day. Of course, his replacement knew nothing about the ordered part.

Two weeks after the drop-off, I was at the dealer and discovered that the house batteries were dead. I spoke to the dealer's tech who would be doing the repair and got the comment; "Oh no, three weeks ago I had to make a service call at the other end of the state for the same problem." He then explained that there was a diode in the wiring harness that could short out and would lock the hydraulic unit in the "push the jacks down" mode. The only way to retract the jacks once this happens is to pull the wire on the relay located on the side of the hydraulic unit, exactly what you were told. He checked my unit and found the stuck relay and shorted diode. Unfortunately, the power for this circuit does not go through the battery disconnect relay so it'll drain the battery even after you've hit the disconnect switch.

When they were inspecting the hydraulic system when this happened, they also discovered that I had one of the units with bad hydraulic return hoses. With less than six month's ownership, the return lines were badly bubbled. Replacement lines were ordered and installed.

The jack system has been working properly since the repairs were completed. Fortunately, all of this happened during the factory warranty period.

Phil

Thanks your response. I took it to a 1 week reservation I had paid for with no further drams except as noted earlier. I dropped it at an approved shop for warranty repairs on Monday.

The only difference between our systems is the pump is unidirectional vs bidirectional as of late 2010. Also the reverse relay you refer to is Now a reversing hydraulic switch instead. The diode is still there and apparently still fails.

I left the white/black lead off, the only parasite I could think of.

BTW welcome to the forum!

[pmsherman]

I didn't know that they changed the pump system at some time in the past. Mine is the unidirectional pump with the relay changing the path the pressurized hydraulic fluid takes. This system uses hydraulic pressure to move the jacks in both directions, eliminating the need for springs to retract the jacks.

My only concern at this time is that the delay getting the pump caused enough of a delay that the dealer couldn't get the replacement wiring harness before I took the unit out on my next trip. They "borrowed" a new harness for me from another new unit they had on the lot and the new harness from FR went into that unit.

I also now know what to watch for and what to do about it. When attempting to retract the jacks, I keep myself aware of which way the jacks are moving; up or down. If they're going down; I immediately turn off the engine which shuts down the jack system. Pull the power wire on the relay then the jacks will retract normally. Leave the wire disconnected because it will drain your house batteries. If you're in the middle of a trip, you can always hook it up for a few minutes to lower the jacks.

Phil

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by pmsherman

I didn't know that they changed the pump system at some time in the past. Mine is the unidirectional pump with the relay changing the path the pressurized hydraulic fluid takes. This system uses hydraulic pressure to move the jacks in both directions, eliminating the need for springs to retract the jacks.



Phil

Neither did I except the book provided was for the older system. It used control relay to reverse the DC motor for extend and retract. It had a large relay for reverising where the new system uses a shuttle solonoid to reverse fluid flow.The clue is if you use a 1/4- 5/16 emer drive in pump end its the older system. New uses a 1/2" drive socket clockwise rotation. Easy to see difference "lci1.com" go to Electronic leveling plus from the numerouts entries. Closest match I can find and a very good graphic of the "wiring harness with diode. No schematic though. Control pad is a 4 lead matrix of numerous commands into the "brain".

Here's a couple of quirks for ya, at campground put ign key to aux and right slide started in. Bedroom slide operates opposite of two mid slides ie wire off to extend and wire on to retract! I'm sure, did it four times in driveway and at campground.
Older system is dated 08/2009 Electronic leveling and serive manual
Newer system is dated 09/2010 Electronic leveling Plus owners and service
manual. Both listed under "Leveling/stablization owners manuals. Thanks for your advice re system ops. Sucks we have to learn this the hard way eh?

[blightle]

I just read this old thread. I just experienced this same problem. Slide outs would not retract. When I would press the rocker switch to bring them in, they just kept moving out until fully extended. Fortunately I reached a tech at Lippert within about 8 minutes. He told me that I blew the diodes in the wiring harness and walked me through the workaround that VinceU earlier in the thread described. I now have a new wiring harness with new diodes on order for $150. My voltage was very low (still resolving that issue) around 8.5 volts and he said that if you try to operate the slides at that low of voltage, the amps are increased significantly and it blows the diodes - that certainly would have been nice to know beforehand. Anyone ever heard of the low voltage causing the diodes to blow? Also, I see a black box on the outside of the wiring harness by the pump. About2.5 inches long and 3/4 inches think. Assume the diodes are inside but the box is sealed. Once I get the new harness on and working, I plan to crack open this old one to see if the diodes could actually be replaced (Lippert said they could not). Anyone every try to replace the diodes?

[Trempert]

I always make sure I have the generator running or I'm plugged into shore power before operating the slides to avoid the low voltage situation. Unfortunately the slides won't move with the engine running as a safety measure so that's not an option like it is with the jacks.

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by blightle

I just read this old thread. I just experienced this same problem. Slide outs would not retract. When I would press the rocker switch to bring them in, they just kept moving out until fully extended. Fortunately I reached a tech at Lippert within about 8 minutes. He told me that I blew the diodes in the wiring harness and walked me through the workaround that VinceU earlier in the thread described. I now have a new wiring harness with new diodes on order for $150. My voltage was very low (still resolving that issue) around 8.5 volts and he said that if you try to operate the slides at that low of voltage, the amps are increased significantly and it blows the diodes - that certainly would have been nice to know beforehand. Anyone ever heard of the low voltage causing the diodes to blow? Also, I see a black box on the outside of the wiring harness by the pump. About2.5 inches long and 3/4 inches think. Assume the diodes are inside but the box is sealed. Once I get the new harness on and working, I plan to crack open this old one to see if the diodes could actually be replaced (Lippert said they could not). Anyone every try to replace the diodes?

Been on the road all day, just found your post. Part two of hyd horrors was titled "Hydraulic Problems May 12" as a word doc with lots of pictures and trouble shooting help. Went throught it for months cause no one could id the cable. Anyway I took that cable apart including the "sealed circuit board. Its not diodes failing its actually a IC chip that turns on a power transistor and won't let it open again. Both diodes on mine were fine, buts its a easy excuse. The diode failing could not cause yours and mine symptoms. Have a read and post what ya think. Good huntin-

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by blightle

I just read this old thread. I just experienced this same problem. Slide outs would not retract. When I would press the rocker switch to bring them in, they just kept moving out until fully extended. Fortunately I reached a tech at Lippert within about 8 minutes. He told me that I blew the diodes in the wiring harness and walked me through the workaround that VinceU earlier in the thread described. I now have a new wiring harness with new diodes on order for $150. My voltage was very low (still resolving that issue) around 8.5 volts and he said that if you try to operate the slides at that low of voltage, the amps are increased significantly and it blows the diodes - that certainly would have been nice to know beforehand. Anyone ever heard of the low voltage causing the diodes to blow? Also, I see a black box on the outside of the wiring harness by the pump. About2.5 inches long and 3/4 inches think. Assume the diodes are inside but the box is sealed. Once I get the new harness on and working, I plan to crack open this old one to see if the diodes could actually be replaced (Lippert said they could not). Anyone every try to replace the diodes?

Heres the hermetically sealed "box" exposed! I had these pics in my other thread but just for ready reference here they are again.

!st is the capble itself you see in the middle the "box" has been extracted from the taped spit protection jacket.
2nd is the board itself. The connection side is shown cause it was the easiet to free. The large white wire is switched by a scr or medium transistor, it pairs with the black wire shown at right and opens/closes the reversing fluid solonoid. With measurements I found the white conected all the time, shorted through. A microprocessor was sending a signal to the scr/trans to fire all the time, this will cause all devices to extend, always when a command is given. There are two diodes on the board, they both measured ok. My cable failed on a jack retract, probalbly the lowest load of all with the weight of the coach assisting.

[Trempert]

I had similar problems this past weekend. I found two diodes in the Ford fuse box under the front left dash. The are labeled as being fit the gear shift interlock but I'm now fairly certain they are for the jacks and slides. One of the diodes had fried/melted. You can get new ones at a Ford dealer. Less than $10. I think the diodes are used to prevent jack operation without the engine running and to prevent slide operation when the engine is running. Hopefully I don't have a bad harness as well. Time will tell.....

[pr_dog]

Originally Posted by Trempert

I had similar problems this past weekend. I found two diodes in the Ford fuse box under the front left dash. The are labeled as being fit the gear shift interlock but I'm now fairly certain they are for the jacks and slides. One of the diodes had fried/melted. You can get new ones at a Ford dealer. Less than $10. I think the diodes are used to prevent jack operation without the engine running and to prevent slide operation when the engine is running. Hopefully I don't have a bad harness as well. Time will tell.....

I had the same problems but in my case was my hyd pump leaked fliud into the motor and burnt the motor out after the jacks went down. I removed everything and installed a new pump seal and new motor and reinstalled everything . Ny switches for the slides do the same as mentioned in a different post above and my jacks are still down. I had to disconnect the directional valve to get the slides in and the jacks retracted partially but not to the full up position. Possibly from air or something else.

I am disconnecting the diode in question and going to try and find one at the ford dealer. I hope I can get one and thank you for the advice.

[pr_dog]

Originally Posted by Trempert

I had similar problems this past weekend. I found two diodes in the Ford fuse box under the front left dash. The are labeled as being fit the gear shift interlock but I'm now fairly certain they are for the jacks and slides. One of the diodes had fried/melted. You can get new ones at a Ford dealer. Less than $10. I think the diodes are used to prevent jack operation without the engine running and to prevent slide operation when the engine is running. Hopefully I don't have a bad harness as well. Time will tell.....

Trempert
I've been looking all over for the diode at our local auto parts stores. Our ford dealer told me that the diode now comes with a harness and not separate any more. My burnt out one is from lippert and no #s are available let alone the part. They too have the diode build into a new controller of which will need their new harness for it. Quite costly as well and a long wait for it to get here to Nova Scotia, Canada. We have a "Parts Source" store here but need a part #. Can you possibly find a part # and send it in a reply?

[VinceU]

Keep in mind a diode is simply a electronic check valve, it allows negative current to flow but blocks positive. To renew one you need to know the voltage rating and current or wattage it must pass. Take yourself bad one to a electronic supply house. Also realize the failure in "Hydraulic Horrors" was not a diode at all but rather a micro processor failure which triggered a transistor to short to ground causing the reversing solenoid to extend all rams. It's much more complex than Lippert claim "it's a diode"!

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by pr_dog

Trempert
I've been looking all over for the diode at our local auto parts stores. Our ford dealer told me that the diode now comes with a harness and not separate any more. My burnt out one is from lippert and no #s are available let alone the part. They too have the diode build into a new controller of which will need their new harness for it. Quite costly as well and a long wait for it to get here to Nova Scotia, Canada. We have a "Parts Source" store here but need a part #. Can you possibly find a part # and send it in a reply?

Just Google Ford Diode Fuse and see all that comes up.
All it does it only allow DC current to run in one direction so it won't backfeed into another system.

https://www.amazon.com/Ford-F5TZ-14A.../dp/B000O0HM9I

[pr_dog]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Just Google Ford Diode Fuse and see all that comes up.
All it does it only allow DC current to run in one direction so it won't backfeed into another system.

https://www.amazon.com/Ford-F5TZ-14A.../dp/B000O0HM9I

That pic is certainly not the same as the little black cicuit with the failed diodes. It doesn't have all the 5 wires on it. I am going to have to ask Lippert to send me just the black box without the rest of the harness. They advised me already in an email that the old harness is not available anymore but a new one is and accompanied by a new controller. They told me to look in an outside compartment and screwed to the ceiling of it for the controller. I looked every where and coln't find it. I need the part# fo it for them to identify the type I need for them to send. Any idea where it is located in the Georgetown 373? Please let me know.