Is it time to change spark plugs?

[Iggy]

We all started talking in another thread about spark plugs in our Ford V-10 and I found this valuable information that I felt was worthwhile to post for others.

The writer is an auto mechanic expert and he says you should actually reduce problems with spark plugs getting broken or stuck if you wait until the 100,000 miles mark by replacement earlier by a trained mechanic at about 40,000 miles. This will reduce a possibility of a stuck or broken spark plug..... Sounds like a good idea for me with 36,000 miles on my Ford V-10.

Here is the web link if you need.
https://adamseer.wordpress.com/2012/...ug-difficulty/

Ford Broken Spark Plug Difficulty

Posted on December 17, 2012 by adamseer

View Out for Ford Motorcraft Two-piece Spark Plugs That Break!

The original equipment Motorcraft brand spark plugs that had been factory set up in many late model (2004 to 2008) Ford trucks with 5.4L V8 and 6.8L V10 engines, 2005 to 2007 Mustang GT 4.6 and 5.4L V8 engines, and 2008 Mustang GT designs constructed just before 11/30/07) can break after you try to remove them!
Automobiles with these spark plugs involve: 2004 – 2008 Ford F150
2005 – 2008 Ford Expedition and F-Super Duty
2005 – 2007 (and 2008 designs created to 11/30/07) Ford Mustang GT with 4.6L V8 engine
2005 – 2008 Lincoln Navigator
2006 – 2008 Ford Explorer
2006 – 2008 Lincoln Mark LT
2006 – 2008 Mercury Mountaneer
2007 – 2008 Ford Explorer Sport Trac
F-53 Motorhome chassis

The Motorcraft PZT 2FE Platinum spark plugs have a crimped lower electrode shell that gets coated with carbon, triggering it to stick during the cylinder head. Rust and corrosion to the decrease plug shell can also cause it to stick. Any time you try to unscrew the plug, the lower shell breaks off and stays inside the head. Eliminating the broken shell involves a exclusive Ford, Snap-On or Lisle extractor tool. Worse however, if any shell or electrode fragments fall to the cylinder and cannot be fished out, you could need to remove the cylinder head to get the debris out.

A lot of professionals encourage replacing the original equipment Motorcraft spark plugs just before the get as well numerous miles on them (above 40,000 miles). Replacing the plugs at lower mileage will reduce the danger of them sticking and breaking. Waiting till the authentic equipment spark plugs have 100,000 miles on them is asking for difficulty!

In case your car features a lots of miles on it (say more than 80,000), as well as spark plugs have under no circumstances been replaced, it could possibly be best to just leave them alone. The authentic equipment Motorcraft spark plugs possess a platinum tipped center electrode. The plugs should last upwards of 100,000 miles or more. Lots of plugs will actually go up to 140,000 miles or more with no problems – furnished the engine is not really burning oil and sees enough highway driving to help keep the plugs clean (frequent brief trip stop-and-go driving could cause plugs to foul). So as long as your engine is commencing and operating fine, and having typical fuel economy (no misfiring and no Examine Engine light with misfire codes), there exists definitely no have to change the spark plugs.

Here’s an additional believed. Should you be organizing on promoting or trading your Ford truck or Mustang in the subsequent number of many years (and it can be operating fine now), leave the spark plugs alone and let the next owner be concerned about shifting them. The threat is in the event you attempt to alter large mileage plugs and break off several plugs (which frequently occurs), these spark plugs could price you lots of revenue. Several Ford dealerships are charging $600 to many thousand dollars to change the spark plugs within the 5.4L, 4.6L and 6.8L engines which have the two-piece Motorcraft spark plugs. Why? Because the plugs commonly stick and break, and it will take lots of time and work to extract the debris in the spark plug holes. In some instances, it could even be needed to remove the cylinder heads to finish their repair.

Ford’s Technical Service Bulletin 08-7-6
Ford Technical Services Bulletin 08-7-6 addresses the advisable removal process for these spark plugs, as well as the repair procedure if one or even more plugs break ( Click Here to See Ford TSB 08-7-6). NOTE: TSB 08-7-6 supersedes the earlier TSB 06-5-9 that also covered the same matter. The difference is that the newest TSB says to remove the spark plugs once the engine is COLD (at room temperature). The older TSB said to remove the spark plugs when the engine was WARM (not COLD and never HOT). They principle was that a warm engine generates a bit more clearance amongst the plug shell and cylinder head. But eliminating spark plugs on a warm engine with aluminum cylinder heads also increases the potential risk of damaging the threads while in the spark plug hole, as well.

Ways to Remove the Motorcraft Spark Plugs So They do not Break
First, ensure the engine is at area temperature (COLD).
Loosen every single spark plug about 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Then Quit!
Spray some WD-40 or penetrating oil into every spark plug nicely. Enable the oil to soak in to the threads so it could possibly loosen any carbon or corrosion throughout the electrode shell. Wait not less than 15 minutes, or lengthier (overnight is proposed if your plugs have over 80,000 miles on them).

Immediately after the penetrating oil has had time to operate, gradually loosen every single spark plug, applying not more than 35 ft. lbs of torque for your wrench. If a plug sticks, retighten it half a turn, apply extra penetrating oil, wait, then consider yet again. The plugs might squeal and groan, but will hopefully come out without the need of breaking.

Eliminating carbon from within the combustion chamber just before shifting the spark plugs could also decrease the chance in the spark plugs sticking and breaking. Making use of Leading Tier gasoline or including a fuel system cleaner (such as Chevron Techron or equivalent) for your fuel tank frequently might help lower carbon buildup inside the combustion chamber. If you engine has a lot of miles on it, and/or is using oil, utilizing a Best

Cleaner therapy to remove carbon prior to shifting the spark plugs is extremely advised.

In case you Break a Spark Plug
In case you break a spark plug, see the Ford TSB 08-7-6 to discover Ford’s strategy for removing the broken electrode shell in the cylinder head.
Right here is a quick video on the best way to use NAPA Ford Spark Plug Extractor SER 4663.
Lisle Instrument also sells a spark plug repair instrument for these applications (aspect number 65600). For information about this instrument, Click Right here. To check out the directions on tips on how to make use of the Lisle instrument to remove a broken spark plug insulator shell, Click Here.
The Lisle Instrument is available on line at Amazon and from Snap-On instrument distributors.
Spark Plug Installation
Don’t reinstall precisely the same Motorcraft spark plugs (PZT 2FE Platinum). Replace the authentic equipment spark plugs with one-piece spark plugs from Champion Spark Plugs(portion amount 7989), or related spark plugs from NGK, Denso or Bosch. Various aftermarket efficiency organizations (including Roush) also sell a more robust one-piece replacement spark plug for these engines that won’t break. Note: the Champion spark plugs demand a greater 5/8-inch socket to install (the original Motorcraft plugs have a 9/16-inch hex shell).
Apply nickel anti-seize to the outer surface with the decrease electrode shell (the smooth element) ahead of setting up the plugs.
Tighten the brand new spark plugs to 25 ft. lbs (34 Nm).
Replacing the rubber boot that fits in between the coil and spark plug is likewise advised to avoid arcing which can bring about misfires.

[HookupAndGo]

I got burned by this with my 2006 Expedition.... nothing like paying over a $1000 to have spark plugs changed !!!! and that was only 8 cylinders. But, on the good side, there are some that have paid 2x's that -- just a real "piece of work" design.

It says the F53 chassis with no year. But, the V-10 is the standard/same engine in the older models. My EXPECTATION, and that is saying a lot, is that it should no longer be an issue with the later Ford V-10's such as your 2012 and my 2013.

Man... I really really really hope it isn't still existent on these engines.

[OldCoot]

Don't have a Ford, but I always use a small amount of Silver Goop on the threads of sparkplugs and never have a problem with them seizing or loosening. Silver Goop is a little pricey, but like the old Brylcreem commercial, "A little dab will do ya"
Swagelok MS-TL-SGT Silver Goop Anti-Seize - 1 oz Tube at SkyGeek.com

[waiter21]

When I was researching my purchase of a used Mirada with the V10 I studied the spitting spark plug issue real close. Mine doesn't have the two piece plugs that break, mine has the plugs that spit out and strip the threads. :-(

Fortunately, its a very rare thing, but the user should be aware of it.

Good post by Iggy.

The vast majority of spitters come from changed plugs; improper torque or wrong plug (not nickle plated), seem to be the two major culprits.

I changed my plugs (and boots) at 60k, because I didn't know if they were ever changed, and I wanted to ensure it was done correctly. If your the original owner from new, I agree, leave them alone until 100k. If you ar a used buyer, I'd consider changing them just to ensure it was done correctly.

I used the autolite replacement plugs that are nickle plated (the plugs are a silver color, not black.

I torqued the the plugs to 160 inch lbs (I bought a "inch lb" wrench just for this)

I used a tiny bit of anti seize on the plug threads.

I have 10k on the plugs so far, with no problems.

[TURBS]

Iggy this just came across my desk today.



TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "11 nights"

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by TURBS

Iggy this just came across my desk today.

Attachment 81905

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "11 nights"

Coincidence? I don't think so. Thanks TURBS


The good part of this thread is that everyone will know changing plugs is not for the shade tree mechanic.
I will have to call my Ford Truck dealer and ask how much to change plugs.
Not ready to spend $1,000 dollars to have my plugs changed or was that after they damaged the heads?

See you in Goshen.
Iggy

[Iggy]

[QUOTE=HookupAndGo;911758]I got burned by this with my 2006 Expedition.... nothing like paying over a $1000 to have spark plugs changed !!!! and that was only 8 cylinders. But, on the good side, there are some that have paid 2x's that -- just a real "piece of work" design.
...
QUOTE]

$1,000 plugs for your Expedition..... WOW!
Curious. Was just a plug change out or did they damage something while doing it?

[HookupAndGo]

Originally Posted by Iggy

$1,000 plugs for your Expedition..... WOW!
Curious. Was just a plug change out or did they damage something while doing it?

7 of the 8 plugs broke and they had to use their "special tool" and the extra hours required to pull them. They also followed the TSB and soaked them prior to even attempting to pull them -- wasn't pretty. If things would have been bad they would have had to pull the heads, but they -- I -- was at least lucky in that regard. I think we had about 85K miles on it, only reason we were doing it is we had a miss in one cylinder. We had a miss earlier and they changed the "1" without issue along with the coil.

You know... I really don't even want to look to see if I have those plugs again. They are supposed to have fixed the problem -- or I would have seriously thought about this RV.

[cpaulsen]

Wow!! Reading some of these threads kinda made me wonder why the huge labor charges?? Have done my V-10 Superduty 3 times with no problems(one piece plugs)and takes about a hour o so to do. Did a lot of 07-2012 4.6's and a couple of 5.4 in 2003 and 2012 Expeditions and always took less than 2-2/12 hours. Thousand bucks seems like a lot of money!!

[acadianbob]

You don't want to try change your own plugs on these affected vehicles as you might wind up with a BIG problem.

5 of 8 plugs broke in my 5.4 V8. It cost me an extra $300 in labor. This was at the 60M mile point. (Yeah, I'm stubborn. I still use M for 1,000 rather than K! K is from computers. And technically it is 1,028 not 1,000.)

But I wrote to Ford and asked whether they would reimburse the $300. Much to my surprise, they sent me a check for $500!! I've bought numerous F150's from the same dealer. Maybe it was a reward for being a loyal customer with Ford and the dealer. So, I feel Ford stepped up to the issue.

[SKnight]

Originally Posted by cpaulsen

Wow!! Reading some of these threads kinda made me wonder why the huge labor charges?? Have done my V-10 Superduty 3 times with no problems(one piece plugs)and takes about a hour o so to do. Did a lot of 07-2012 4.6's and a couple of 5.4 in 2003 and 2012 Expeditions and always took less than 2-2/12 hours. Thousand bucks seems like a lot of money!!

They pre quote in the event that they have to extract all the plug tips. A regular plug swap is a couple of hours labor if all goes well and roughly 45 minutes a hole to extract the plug tip. If they're lucky they come out by soaking them, if they're ethical then they'll call you with a surprise lower final bill.

Foad screwed the pooch on that plug design. Surely that issue came up during R&D.

[youroo]

I use (Loctite Anti-Seize-C5A) on All my Sparkplugs (Alum or Cast iron Hds)! Sounds like it would save a LOT of $$$ to Remove the Plugs with LOW mileage/Sitting for periods of time,and Apply (Something on the threads)? Do the Exhaust Manifold fasteners at the same time! Youroo!!

[SKnight]

Originally Posted by youroo

I use (Loctite Anti-Seize-C5A) on All my Sparkplugs (Alum or Cast iron Hds)! Sounds like it would save a LOT of $$$ to Remove the Plugs with LOW mileage/Sitting for periods of time,and Apply (Something on the threads)? Do the Exhaust Manifold fasteners at the same time! Youroo!!

It's not the threads, it's actually below that. Ford designed the plug with a roughly 1" smooth extension below the threads, an extension that's poorly welded on.

Over time carbon builds up between the cylinder head and the plug, when you try removing the plug that carbon bunches up jamming the plug shell and breaking it off in the head. Champion, which I normally wouldn't run in a lawnmower, came up with a one piece plug that fixes that issue. They're very expensive, but if you intend to keep your vehicle a long time it's worth it.

[Radio]

And bear in mind the design of the engine and head is a pretty good design.

It's only the two piece plug, (do they even make that anymore?) that's a really bad design.

My favorite shade tree guy got mine out without breaking a single one at 93000 miles. Of course all the carbon had been blown out with a Seafoam treatment the night before and they soaked all morning with liquid wrench. Then went back in with a bit of C5-A.

All the boots were replaced and all the contacts on the bottom of the coils were scrubbed clean.

Good as new. Better, actually. BTW Motorcraft and Autolite both have a plug where the two halves are welded, not crimped, and either will do nicely.

[ramair]

Most dealers go by the flat labor manual and that's how their mechanics get paid if Flat Rate. Book says 2.5hrs then that is the charge, if he gets it done in 1hr you still are paying the 2.5hrs to the dealer and the mechanic is being paid for 2.5hrs, that's how they can flag 70hrs in a 40hr week.

[kandl]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

5 of 8 plugs broke in my 5.4 V8. It cost me an extra $300 in labor. This was at the 60M mile point. (Yeah, I'm stubborn. I still use M for 1,000 rather than K! K is from computers. And technically it is 1,028 not 1,000.)

Not exactly... The "K" prefix so often employed to denote thousands, is derived from the metric system i.e., K = kilo = 1000.

But back to the OP's thread... ay caramba! I can no longer complain about changing the plugs on the Hemi!

[SKnight]

Originally Posted by ramair

Most dealers go by the flat labor manual and that's how their mechanics get paid if Flat Rate. Book says 2.5hrs then that is the charge, if he gets it done in 1hr you still are paying the 2.5hrs to the dealer and the mechanic is being paid for 2.5hrs, that's how they can flag 70hrs in a 40hr week.

Very true, but when stuff starts randomly breaking such as 5 of 8 spark plugs that's when it gets fuzzy. That's why they quote so high before starting, it's always easier to go down rather than up.

[Iggy]

I know this is an old thread but needs to be reviewed for anyone wanting toi change their spark plugs on their V10

[JimF]

Originally Posted by Iggy

I know this is an old thread but needs to be reviewed for anyone wanting toi change their spark plugs on their V10

I notice that the above seems to be addressing the 2005 through 2008 year model V10. We have a chassis build of October 2010, is the 2 piece plug still used in that model? Or do you know.

Thanks.

[cfo111]

answer is yes champion plugs makes one piece for the V10