Keep tripping GFI'sq

[Krazymace]

Thanks all. I'll see what my dealer figures out. I'm not optimistic!!


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[westom]

Originally Posted by Krazymace

Thanks all. I'll see what my dealer figures out. I'm not optimistic!!

At what point does someone say, "The GFCI is reporting exactly what it is suppose to report. You have a ground fault; a current leakage. The fault can be anything after the GFCI."

Numerous reasons can cause this. But the one fact that exists with little doubt. You have an electrical fault. A fault that is located by disconnecting things until the fault terminates.

For example, a wiring problem in the RV might not cause this trip until something inside the RV consumers current through that wire. Only one of many reasons for that clearly existing fault.

BTW, it demonstrates so many will make recommendations without understanding basic electrical concepts such as what a GFCI reports.

[Krazymace]

Originally Posted by westom

At what point does someone say, "The GFCI is reporting exactly what it is suppose to report. You have a ground fault; a current leakage. The fault can be anything after the GFCI."

Numerous reasons can cause this. But the one fact that exists with little doubt. You have an electrical fault. A fault that is located by disconnecting things until the fault terminates.

For example, a wiring problem in the RV might not cause this trip until something inside the RV consumers current through that wire. Only one of many reasons for that clearly existing fault.

BTW, it demonstrates so many will make recommendations without understanding basic electrical concepts such as what a GFCI reports.

Totally agree. As I previously indicated, I turned off all breakers, including the main. As soon as I turned the main back on, it tripped the GFI! So I assume nothing beyond the panel is the cause.


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[westom]

Originally Posted by Krazymace

Totally agree. As I previously indicated, I turned off all breakers, including the main. As soon as I turned the main back on, it tripped the GFI! So I assume nothing beyond the panel is the cause.

So where is the electrical conductor that connects the hot or neutral wire to safety ground or to earth? You have a fault. The defect need only conduct 0.005 amps. But GFCI says that fault (and potential human safety issue) exists. Often inspection is an only effective solution.

For example, is the safety ground and neutral wire connected together in the panel? Those must not connect until they meet back at the pole. Or in your case, back at the house main panel.

A screw might not have been removed to separate safety ground and neutral. A continuity (ohm) meter might be used to verify a disconnected RV means no connection between safety ground, hot, and neutral wires.

0.005 amps means a fault might be as much as 10,000 ohm.

[Paul S.]

Any chance your 50 amp cable could have gotten any moisture in it? Dripping from the a/c or washing the vehicle? I had a similar problem with my gfci in the coach. The main gfci was in the kitchen and I had 2 standard outlets piggybacked off of the gfci. 1st was in the bathroom and the 2nd was in the storage bay that was forward of the rear wheel. It was mounted on the rear wall with the wires going through it into the wheel well area. We had driven through a rain storm and the tire kicked up the rain and forced the moisture through the cable insulation into the back of the outlet housing. It was a few days after we had driven through the rain that I trouble shot why the gfci was kicking out. When I remove the back of the outlet in the storage bay I could just see slight dampness in the outlet. I disconnected it and was able to reset the gfci. Knowing this was the problem I reconnected it and decided to leave the back of the outlet off and the storage bay door open to air out. There was absolutely no signs of water intrusion into the bay only dampness on the back of the outlet. I tried to reset the gfci after letting it air dry for an hour and it would not reset. It took about 6 hours of air drying to be able to reset the gfci. My point is that it only takes a small amount of dampness for the gfci to kick out.

[Krazymace]

Originally Posted by Paul S.

Any chance your 50 amp cable could have gotten any moisture in it? Dripping from the a/c or washing the vehicle? I had a similar problem with my gfci in the coach. The main gfci was in the kitchen and I had 2 standard outlets piggybacked off of the gfci. 1st was in the bathroom and the 2nd was in the storage bay that was forward of the rear wheel. It was mounted on the rear wall with the wires going through it into the wheel well area. We had driven through a rain storm and the tire kicked up the rain and forced the moisture through the cable insulation into the back of the outlet housing. It was a few days after we had driven through the rain that I trouble shot why the gfci was kicking out. When I remove the back of the outlet in the storage bay I could just see slight dampness in the outlet. I disconnected it and was able to reset the gfci. Knowing this was the problem I reconnected it and decided to leave the back of the outlet off and the storage bay door open to air out. There was absolutely no signs of water intrusion into the bay only dampness on the back of the outlet. I tried to reset the gfci after letting it air dry for an hour and it would not reset. It took about 6 hours of air drying to be able to reset the gfci. My point is that it only takes a small amount of dampness for the gfci to kick out.

I think that may be exactly what happened. However, it isn't my coach GFI that's tripping. It's the 20 amp outlets on shore power.


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[westom]

Originally Posted by Krazymace

I think that may be exactly what happened. However, it isn't my coach GFI that's tripping.

A five milliamp fault on the cable from coach to 'shore' is completely ignored by any GFCI in the coach. That becomes obvious once 'what a GFCI does' is learned.

GFCI in the house must detect a 5+ milliamp fault in that cable.

[Krazymace]

Originally Posted by westom

A five milliamp fault on the cable from coach to 'shore' is completely ignored by any GFCI in the coach. That becomes obvious once 'what a GFCI does' is learned.

GFCI in the house must detect a 5+ milliamp fault in that cable.

I know my 50 amp cable did get wet at the 50 amp to 30 amp adaptor. Makes sense my 50 amp cable may be the culprit??


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[westom]

Originally Posted by Krazymace

Makes sense my 50 amp cable may be the culprit??

If true, then a GFCI was reporting a defect that should not exist. Those cables should get wet and not leak even 5 milliamps.

We learn from our mistakes. Note many who wanted to cure symptoms rather than identify a potential human safety problem. A GFCI trips because a potential human safety defect exists. I cannot say how many times others have blamed a GFCI instead of a sump pump that had a human safety defect in the pump or on its power cord.

[Krazymace]

[QUOTE=westom;672662]If true, then a GFCI was reporting a defect that should not exist. Those cables should get wet and not leak even 5 milliamps.

So what's my cure? Appreciate all your info. Good stuff!


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[fast murray]

The fact that you can plug in with all the breakers off in the coach makes you want to say the problem is right in the electrical panel of the coach. Make sure the neutral and grounding conductor aren't tied together in there. It would be interesting to test between the grounding prong and the neutral prong of your RV cord and see if there's any resistance between the two. There should be none. I'd also take that meter with the main off and make sure you're getting power to the line side of the main breaker and that the GFCI isn't tripping before you think it is. It's amazing the advice that RV dealerships will hand out. Removing the GFCI from your garage is not the answer. It's like listening to the electrical guy in Menards, bad idea!

[westom]

Originally Posted by Krazymace

So what's my cure? Appreciate all your info. Good stuff!

Inspection: no conductive material (copper wire, plug prongs) should be able to get wet.

Measurement: with power code disconnected from that GFCI outlet, measure between each conductor with an ohm meter. Anything connection between any two conductors that is near to or less than 20,000 ohms is a fault. A meter can help narrow down the search for that fault.

Testing: when everything is dry and the GFCI does not trip, then use a garden hose to slow wet different locations until the GFCI trips. You need not worry much about being electrocuted becaues the GFCI should trip before you can be shocked. As soon as a wet spot trips the GFCI, then you have a suspect location.

And finally, if the cable has a hole or crack, then moisture may have gotten inside. Getting inside of a cable dry before sealing it can be challenging. One popular solution was to put the break into a sealed container with rice. Over a week, rice may draw out that moisture.

One correction. Neutral and safety ground wire should not be connected anywhere until both meet at the pole. Or in this case, at the main breaker box in the house. If neutral and ground are shorted together in the coach breaker box, then that would explain a house GFCI trip and no coach GFCI trips.

[Freds342]

Everyone keeps forgetting the fact that the garage breaker doesn't pop when the 50-A cable is plugged in and the mains are open.

That shows us that the problem is after the main, NOT in the cable.

[Krazymace]

Originally Posted by Freds342

Everyone keeps forgetting the fact that the garage breaker doesn't pop when the 50-A cable is plugged in and the mains are open.



That shows us that the problem is after the main, NOT in the cable.

It actually does. I adapt my 50 amp down to a 30 amp extension cord and then adapt it down to a 20 amp GFI outlet. The second I plug into 20 amp, my garage GFI pops. If I plug directly into 30 am, which I have in my RV storage barn, I have no issues in my coach. I realize I have no 30 amp GFI protection.


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[Freds342]

Originally Posted by Krazymace

It actually does. I adapt my 50 amp down to a 30 amp extension cord and then adapt it down to a 20 amp GFI outlet. The second I plug into 20 amp, my garage GFI pops. If I plug directly into 30 am, which I have in my RV storage barn, I have no issues in my coach. I realize I have no 30 amp GFI protection.


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I guess your post #7 confused me. It stated that as soon as you turned the main breaker in the MoHo on it tripped.

[bend302]

When you solve this problem, please post the results. I really don't understand electricity that well and would like to hear the fault and the fix.

Thanks

Bill

[westom]

Originally Posted by bend302

I really don't understand electricity that well and would like to hear the fault and the fix.

Reason for tripping is layman simple. For every electron going to an RV (ie on black wire), a same electron must be returning to the house (ie on a white wire). A GFCI measures that current. For 20,000 milliamps, if five milliamps are unaccounted for, then a human life is at risk. So the GFCI cuts off current.

A GFCI measures current going out and current coming back. If not same, then current is going somewhere else; might harm a human. So a GFCI trips. A GFCI is that simple.

[Krazymace]

Brought my MH back from dealer today. Leaving on a trip tomorrow. I cannot connect to a GFI or non GFI circuit. If I connect to a GFI outside my house, the House/garage GFI trips. If I connect to a non GFI, it trips the breaker on my house electrical panel. Nothing in on in the MH. Help!!


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[Indymule]

If it's tripping the breaker on a non GFI circuit the instant you plug in, you have a direct short somewhere. I would take it back to the dealer