Lippert hydraulic system? Really?

[Aandchart]

First road trip in our new ride goes south.

After doing a little forum reading I see I've got more problems to come with this hydraulic system. This weekend the family and I went to Palo Duro Canyon State Park. Check it out the mesquite camp site...beautiful!

But things went sour after arriving, the jack leveling system would not lower and the slide outs would not move either. Being a newbie, with little to no knowledge of how everything is control hydraulically and electrically. I was helpless and needed to figure it out, fast. The manual had limited information, there was no cellular service in the canyon for internet and daylight was running out.

Eventually I found one of the culprits. A fuse in the AUX battery area had blown out, but it wasn't until I got home did I find the other, an unknown strange looking circuit breaker switch that popped. Needless to say, we never got to fully enjoy it.

New problem. Why is this new rig leaking hydraulic fluid at the pump area? Where is the reservoir sight gauge so it can be serviced to the proper amount? Is there a quality service manual available? Isn't it weird a $100k machine comes with a generic xerox copied operators manual?

Perhaps you experience RV vets have worked out these delimas.

[Hob]

The first problem most people find out about is generally something made by Lippert. I have a few issues with anything Lippert has their fingers in but I'm working them out or around one by one. Good luck in finding all the Lippert problems in an expediant manner.

[Freds342]

I'd like to respond to your particular problem, but it'd addressed ad naseum in the thread.

Generally, if you have enough trans fluid in the system, it works pretty well. I it' bseen sitting on a dealer's lot for a while, it may need cycling and a bit of fluid.

Best of luck,

Fred

[VinceU]

I think the two senarios are related. Otjers had the same problm. Oil seal allows oil in windings motor will fail. The breaker rated 80-120 amps. More than enough. Suggest you involve yr dealer, may not be this bad, but you will need parts regardless.

[georgetown]

If battery voltage is low and you try to operate the slides it could trip the breaker or fuse since you will draw higher amperage if the voltage is low. The jacks will not operate if the emergency brake is not on. The leak by the pump may be from the vent on the pump reservoir cap, if you search the forum you will find its a common problem.

[Aandchart]

Thanks for the tip on the vent, I did not notice it, I'll look close to see if it is leaking also.

By-the-way, here is a picture of the leak.

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by Aandchart

Thanks for the tip on the vent, I did not notice it, I'll look close to see if it is leaking also.

By-the-way, here is a picture of the leak.

I expanded your VG picture up to full size. I see oil on both sides of the pump motor and both top and bottom. Appears to be oozing from the positive motor connection even. I've only seen dripping off the foundation plate prior. Usually the two vertical studs have a drop hanging on each, none in your case.

[Aandchart]

Yes, the greater part of the leak is coming from that big nut with the drop on it. It leaks only under pressure while operating and eventually stops after a day. Puddle size is usually 6-7 inches in diameter. At this time I don't have the luxury of a FR repair service center near by. It's under warranty, suppose I could live with it for a while. What do you think about nt getting it fixed right away?

[Wildhog56]

Hyd leaks can be a real pain to find the actual source of the leak. Buy a can of "Brake Clean" at any Auto parts store. Spray down the entire manifold & pump area. Wipe it down until no trace of oil is seen. Get in a safe position with flashlight & mirror (to see top of manifold) and have someone operate the slideouts. You will then see the true culprit. Mine was a hyd fitting for the Passenger side leveling jack, easy fix (o-ring). Your leak appears to be coming from the main pressure adj screws, but it may be leaking from above. It does not look like your motor to pump seal.

[Two Munchkins]

I have a 2009 Georgetown Mdl 374TS. I have a problem with the hydraulic system also. I bought the unit new in Sep. 2009. Put 9000 miles on it over a period of 1.5 years, no problem. In 2011 at Campground in VA slides would not work, found out no fluid in resevoir. Now have problem when try to lower jacks or use slide outs, Circuit breaker under steps will trip. I think fluid has gone into motor. Still don't know where the leak is coming from. What is solution?

[ronhanson]

Its very likely the pump shaft seal thats leaking, its a known problem. The atf fluid will find it's way through the motor. See this thread

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by Aandchart

Yes, the greater part of the leak is coming from that big nut with the drop on it The big nut is not an adjustment, its more like a casing relief valve. Its a crude way to maintain safe system pressure when it comes to max pressure, no flow- slides at end of travel or jacks hard down or up. Each side has one and protects both extend and retract sides of pump. It leaks only under pressure while operating and eventually stops after a day. Problem is system is always under high pressure 1500 psi +, raises whenever system comes to halt at ends of stroke. Puddle size is usually 6-7 inches in diameter. At this time I don't have the luxury of a FR repair service center near by. It's under warranty, suppose I could live with it for a while. What do you think about nt getting it fixed right away? That depends if oil is entering motor, pic you sent shows oil on end cover of motor adjacent to retainer capscrew. Also note oil dripping from slide valve solenoid just above and beyond the relief valve you pointed out. Thats oil above and far from the tank vent.

In any case the relief valve leak cannot deposit oil above and inboard from its location. Neither can it spray or deposit oil on the end cover of the motor maybe 12" outboard. The source of oil needs to be found, if its in the motor it can be saved for little $, if it fails its 1800 from Lippert. Download the the "other forum" thread from Roshanson's commet or my own reply, both called "thread" .

On another note: I see over the past few months, hose failures were located near the fittings and being blamed on poor attachment during swedge of the ends. Wondering now if another reason might be these pumps spiking high pressure due to relief valve delay. Esp if operator repeatedly operates switches to bring slides or jacks to desired position. Hoses failing in the middle are subject of "weak link failure". Supporting the relief valve fault, used to be 99% orange return hose failures. Now black hoses are being reported more ad more. So much for faulty hose material. I think valve operating timely as well as operaor shocking the system with repeated commands may also be the cause. I noted today from Lippert store, a pump with tank, manifold and accesories costs $1840+. They won't sell parts, too costly to have overhauled, DIY or get local hyd shop to do it with the instructions in the thread if needed. Another comment was Lippert has a 3-5 year warranty, I can't find that.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by VinceU

In any case the relief valve leak cannot deposit oil above and inboard from its location. Neither can it spray or deposit oil on the end cover of the motor maybe 12" outboard. The source of oil needs to be found, if its in the motor it can be saved for little $, if it fails its 1800 from Lippert. Download the the "other forum" thread from Roshanson's commet or my own reply, both called "thread" .

On another note: I see over the past few months, hose failures were located near the fittings and being blamed on poor attachment during swedge of the ends. Wondering now if another reason might be these pumps spiking high pressure due to relief valve delay. Esp if operator repeatedly operates switches to bring slides or jacks to desired position. Hoses failing in the middle are subject of "weak link failure". Supporting the relief valve fault, used to be 99% orange return hose failures. Now black hoses are being reported more ad more. So much for faulty hose material. I think valve operating timely as well as operaor shocking the system with repeated commands may also be the cause. I noted today from Lippert store, a pump with tank, manifold and accesories costs $1840+. They won't sell parts, too costly to have overhauled, DIY or get local hyd shop to do it with the instructions in the thread if needed. Another comment was Lippert has a 3-5 year warranty, I can't find that.

Great snopsis. I'm the one who has had the 2 black lines fail at the fittings at two different locations. One at the pump end for my bedroom slide and one at a leveler while in Auto level.
I can assure you that I do not hold down the in or out switches any longer than needed. I also have thought it may be the pump pressure but only time will tell.

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Great snopsis. I'm the one who has had the 2 black lines fail at the fittings at two different locations. One at the pump end for my bedroom slide and one at a leveler while in Auto level.
I can assure you that I do not hold down the in or out switches any longer than needed. I also have thought it may be the pump pressure but only time will tell.

Thanks, no fingerpointing here, my DW did it when we first got the unit, always had electric slides heretofor. The practice of "one more press" or worse creates pressure waves and more trouble. Point it's not just bad assembly or color hose iwo failures. Hopefully we can narrow all causes and eliminate the hose and pump seal premature failures.
And oh yes, I knew you had the two black failures, one just after delivery and again recently. I was convinced it was the color orange, wrong mfg., wrong assembly and presto, your failures blew that theroy out the window.

[sherman12]

Today, 07/18/2012 I am going after word to look at the 2011 GT 330TS I have had a refundable deposit on ($1000) since May 02 waiting for it to be traded in as the owner waited for his Thor Tuscanny to be delivered at a local dealer. I had posted elsewhere on this forum as a New Member with questions on this rig and Georgetown/Forest River in general. The more I read about bad hydraulic lines and overall hydraulic systems quality of the Georgetown line, is making me a little leery going in to this pending transaction. Am I reading too much into these posts? Or is it the usual line that every MH manfac. has it share of problems and don't let this particular Georgetown issue scare me away from the deal I have ( which I consider to be pretty good with trade etc.)?

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by sherman12

Today, 07/18/2012 I am going after word to look at the 2011 GT 330TS I have had a refundable deposit on ($1000) since May 02 waiting for it to be traded in as the owner waited for his Thor Tuscanny to be delivered at a local dealer. I had posted elsewhere on this forum as a New Member with questions on this rig and Georgetown/Forest River in general. The more I read about bad hydraulic lines and overall hydraulic systems quality of the Georgetown line, is making me a little leery going in to this pending transaction. Am I reading too much into these posts? Or is it the usual line that every MH manfac. has it share of problems and don't let this particular Georgetown issue scare me away from the deal I have ( which I consider to be pretty good with trade etc.)?

You sound nevous as well you should be, It's a sizable investement and requires some careful thought and inspection. Good news may be its 2 years old and a compentent serviceguy can pick out the glaring defects if any. I would be very careful to have someone knowlegable in this field to check and operate every system/accessory on board If you don't feel comforatable hire someone or better take it to a large RV shops and buy their extensive inspection. Its the only time it should be necessary, once you learn it you'll do it yourself.

Bear in mind most all appliances, fittings, lights etc are not built by the coach builder but by many "vendors". They are all used across the board so no one mfg has it over another, and they all have occassional failures.
Lippert Control Industries is one such vendor. Jacks, slides,steps etc if used in your coach. Its electronic/hydraulic and is also used in Monaco, Coachemen and others.

Maybe most important a small percentage of RV owners read these forums, even a smaller percentage report on them. You are not getting a true cross section of problems and sat. surveys only those who wish to share and others to become aware. I've certainly gleaned tons from this media and have shared plently of ideas to correct the situ's.

Best of luck whatever you do but I concentrate of the wonder of having such a toy, not on what can and sometimes will go wrong. If you do, try to learn and understand all components ASAP, if it something goes wrong will be much easier to correct.

[sherman12]

My update on going to look at the Georgetown 330TS (2011 w/4600 miles) last night after work with DW. Coach looks brand new in most respects. Took off battery and hydraulic pump cover in the stairwell to inspect the hydraulic lines and lo and behold, there were blistered orange hydraulic lines! I pointed this out to the salesman and he said he never heard of the problem but would check with service (now past 7pm EST) the next day. Told him it would be a major issue with me. Took the rig for a test drive, at a traffic signal I had to almost stand on the brake pedal to bring it to a stop. Transmission did not shift into overdrive unless I took my foot off of the gas first. Both of these issues my DW noticed too when it was her turn to drive ( I did not mention either while I was driving). Very surprised to find Georgetown does not use gas and electric water heaters. How big of an issue is this? Always thought the more electric used at the campground less expense on the adventure. Front driving fans are cheap plastic and look like something from the Dollar Store. Give and take though is they use real alloy wheels, not liners. Fiberglass roof vs. rubber. Very nice vinyl flooring appearing to be of high quality. I know there is always going to be a Ying and Yang to a buy. Did not make final decision last night, told salesman need a day or two to think over and for him to look into some of the issue's pointed out. I'll keep you post as to whether I will be continuing to post on the FRiver Forum, meaning going forward with the purchase. Thanks!

[TURBS]

Sounds like if they update the issues you've found you might have a deal!

If you do buy it I would consider updating the hw heater to multi use gas/ electric

[Wildhog56]

The hot water heaters are the gas/electric type since at least 2010. My 2012 is for sure. You should be able to remove the outer access cover & see the switch to turn on the electric element.

[sherman12]

Wildhog56 Thanks for the tip. I'll look, or have the salesman check out. Based my opinion only on the inside control panel that appeared to operate gas only, and subsequent reply by the salesman that it was gas only.