Lippert Leveling System

[BigGeorge]

OK, so I was at the dealer the other day and observed a customer bring in a 2014 GT XL. His frame was bent and you could easily see that his rear leveling jacks were also bent. After hearing the story it appeared to me that this was a user error; however, it prompted another discussion. The service manager brought up that the GT series should never lift the wheels off the ground when leveling. I advised that on several occasions, even on a level camp site, my unit lifts one or two wheels off the ground. The service advisor advised that the jacks were not made to support the weight of the unit and will bend the frame. I called Lippert, and they said, while it is not what they would want, it is OK for the unit to lift off the ground to creat a level environment. What do you guys think?

[puff]

We have the Lippert System on our 5'er. I was told the same thing, it is ok for the wheels to be lifted but not ok to leave them like that.

The more points you have in contact with the ground the more stable your rig is going to be. Buy or make some leveling blocks and get the unit close, then drop the jacks. You may need more blocks/wood for them to reach depending on how bad your out of level.

Just my .02 worth.

[BigGeorge]

Originally Posted by puff

We have the Lippert System on our 5'er. I was told the same thing, it is ok for the wheels to be lifted but not ok to leave them like that.

The more points you have in contact with the ground the more stable your rig is going to be. Buy or make some leveling blocks and get the unit close, then drop the jacks. You may need more blocks/wood for them to reach depending on how bad your out of level.

Just my .02 worth.

Thanks for the input. I have never seen a motor home with their wheels on anything. That is something I use to do with our travel trailers. Lippert said it WAS ok to leave the wheels off the ground while camping. Its just like you said, better to have more points touching the ground.

[armye7]

I noticed on my 378 if I use auto jacks it always lifts the 2 back tires off the ground. The dealers tells me this is bad not to do. So to avoid I always use a level and manually do it.

[XL 378]

My MH will lift the tires off the ground if it is not level. I will drive up on blocks and then auto level, works great, good luck.

[BigGeorge]

Thanks for all the good replies but I am now more confused than ever. First, the shafts in the system are only so long. If I drive up on blocks that puts the system further from the ground and in some cases will not reach. Also, all the camping sites I camp on are very level for the most part, that is why I do not understand why it lifts the wheels off the ground. Second, the dealer suggested the manual leveling, but my question to that is why have an automatic leveling system if I have to spend the time to level manually. This is my second MH and I am about ready to go back to a travel trailer. There is also the issue that just because it looks like the wheels are on the ground the jacks may still be supporting all the weight because of the sag in the shocks. Oh well. Thanks all. I do not know what I would do without this forum. You are all very knowledgable.

[Lostdog]

Two things: First I would strongly suggest you never lift the REAR wheels off the ground. The parking brake only effects the rear wheels and if they are lifted off the ground you have no fore and aft control of your MH. And if you have wheels off the ground you are already on a hill. Big OOOPPPS waiting to happen.
And second: We stay at mostly state parks and rarely find a level spot. Frequently we are parked with the front wheels off the ground. If we find a campsite that slopes from front to back we either ask for another site or leave! I will never lift the rear tires off the ground. We are now at a Vermont State Park until the middle of October and the front wheels are a good 15" off the ground. We workamp so I just ask for some spare wood materials to build up what I need up front. In our current case it took two steps of lifting the front, putting cribbing under the front tires, lowering the front and adding cribbing under the jacks, lifting the front again, adding more to the tire stack, lowering and adding to the jack stack then leveling front to back. The front jacks are only extended about 2 to 3 inches and are rock solid. after leveling front to back I put the rear jacks down till they just begin to lift then I fine tuning side to side. I never use the auto mode for the Lippert system because the first time I used it the rear tires were lifted till off the ground. Never again! Hope this helps.

[Falcon35]

I was having a problem with wheels coming of the ground when auto levelling. I have re set the settings by the instructions in the Lippert manual. Those instructions are on the Lippert web sit if you don't have them. It sure is nice to pull in and hit auto level and have it work.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by armye7

I noticed on my 378 if I use auto jacks it always lifts the 2 back tires off the ground. The dealers tells me this is bad not to do. So to avoid I always use a level and manually do it.

Read the manual on Zeroing your control panel. It may help you.

[Trempert]

Originally Posted by BigGeorge

OK, so I was at the dealer the other day and observed a customer bring in a 2014 GT XL. His frame was bent and you could easily see that his rear leveling jacks were also bent. After hearing the story it appeared to me that this was a user error; however, it prompted another discussion. The service manager brought up that the GT series should never lift the wheels off the ground when leveling. I advised that on several occasions, even on a level camp site, my unit lifts one or two wheels off the ground. The service advisor advised that the jacks were not made to support the weight of the unit and will bend the frame. I called Lippert, and they said, while it is not what they would want, it is OK for the unit to lift off the ground to creat a level environment. What do you guys think?

The reason I bought a Class A was so I could run the air while traveling, pull in, push a button (jacks), push a few more buttons (slides), push a another button (awning) all while being in a nice air conditioned environment. Once my fingers take a good rest, I can then go out and hook up the electric, water and sewer. Sometimes my front tires come off the ground, but never my back. By the way, the Lippert system only allows a certain amount of extension between all the jacks. If you have the front fully extended you can't fully extend the back. Same side to side. Also, if you try to extend the jacks when the RV is too far out of level (not safe) the "Excessive Angle" light will come on and your jacks won't deploy. Keep it easy....push the button.

[BigGeorge]

Originally Posted by Trempert

The reason I bought a Class A was so I could run the air while traveling, pull in, push a button (jacks), push a few more buttons (slides), push a another button (awning) all while being in a nice air conditioned environment. Once my fingers take a good rest, I can then go out and hook up the electric, water and sewer. Sometimes my front tires come off the ground, but never my back. By the way, the Lippert system only allows a certain amount of extension between all the jacks. If you have the front fully extended you can't fully extend the back. Same side to side. Also, if you try to extend the jacks when the RV is too far out of level (not safe) the "Excessive Angle" light will come on and your jacks won't deploy. Keep it easy....push the button.

Now that is funny right there, I don't care who you are.

[bubbles]

If the lippert system is functioning correctly on a 378 the levellers deploy and retract in tandem (both front, both rear, both left, both right). In this way frame bending should not occur. The only restriction I read in the owners manual is to not allow all wheels to be off the ground at the same time. This indicates to me that the actuators will support the full weight of the unit. My previous MH did not have an auto level function (individual buttons for each leveller) and therefore cautioned that adjusting paired levellers should be done to avoid frame twisting.

[BigGeorge]

Originally Posted by bubbles

If the lippert system is functioning correctly on a 378 the levellers deploy and retract in tandem (both front, both rear, both left, both right). In this way frame bending should not occur. The only restriction I read in the owners manual is to not allow all wheels to be off the ground at the same time. This indicates to me that the actuators will support the full weight of the unit. My previous MH did not have an auto level function (individual buttons for each leveller) and therefore cautioned that adjusting paired levellers should be done to avoid frame twisting.

I agree. Over the past few days I have spoken with an engineer at Lippert and Steve at FR who use to work for Lippert. I was advised, in addition to what is stated above, that the Lippert jacks are rated at 8000 lbs each which is more than enough to lift the unit with only one jack. So with four they are at 32,000 lbs. My question was that yes the jack could lift the weight but what about the weld points that hold the bracket on that the jacks are bolted to. They said it would be OK. However, they do agree, as stated earlier, that you should not have the back wheels off the ground as that would make the parking brake ineffective. So my conclusion is that I am going to stick with letting the auto level do the work.

[bubbles]

Ditto BG with two other inputs. The parking brake is at the transmission and not the wheels (not an emergency brake) and I believe that if all levellers are deployed and on the ground that even if the rear wheels were off the ground there is no way the MH can roll fwd or aft.

[BigGeorge]

Originally Posted by bubbles

Ditto BG with two other inputs. The parking brake is at the transmission and not the wheels (not an emergency brake) and I believe that if all levellers are deployed and on the ground that even if the rear wheels were off the ground there is no way the MH can roll fwd or aft.

OK then. You just taught me something. I was basing my comment on the parking brake due to an earlier post in the thread. Good to know. Thanks.

[Crankshaft]

Originally Posted by bubbles

Ditto BG with two other inputs. The parking brake is at the transmission and not the wheels (not an emergency brake) and I believe that if all levellers are deployed and on the ground that even if the rear wheels were off the ground there is no way the MH can roll fwd or aft.

WHAT?? If the parking brake is in the transmission and ALL 4 wheels are off the ground...WHAT is going to prevent the MH from moving...MAYBE the jacks digging into the ground???

[Hallen01]

2013 390RB:

Although I have successfully performed the null readjustment several times, it should be noted that the message "Excess Slope" will appear if the unit has to level more than 3 degrees.

The accuracy for null reset is to the nearest 0.5 to 1.0 degree, and the accuracy for leveling is about the same. There is therefore a cumulative error of as much as 2 degrees, so I usually get an excess slope error if I have to level more than about 1.5 degrees.

The drill is to either follow the manual leveling procedure, or to use leveling blocks (preferred, to prevent over extension of the jacks):

Leveling Boards, 2"x12" (for excess slope):
• (4) 2-ft lengths, for tires; if front or rear was 0.3° too low (use four for rear, two for front)
• (4) 2½-ft lengths, for tires in addition to 2-ft lengths; if front or rear was 0.6° too low (use four for rear, two for front)
• (3) 15" lengths, for three tires on same side; only if >1.0° sideways tilt in addition to rear or front too low
• (4) 12" lengths, for pads; use same no. as under adjacent tire

I put a 45 degree bevel on one end and smooth the edges with a rasp. It's a lot of weight to carry around, but it has gotten me out of some jams.

Of course since there is no "Park" position on the transmission, and the air-to-release brakes on the rear wheels is your only parking brake you should never get the rear wheels off the ground, or even close to off the ground.

[Lostdog]

Originally Posted by bubbles

Ditto BG with two other inputs. The parking brake is at the transmission and not the wheels (not an emergency brake) and I believe that if all levellers are deployed and on the ground that even if the rear wheels were off the ground there is no way the MH can roll fwd or aft.

Huh? Your right...the parking brake is on the output shaft of the transmission...on the drive shaft which is connected to the rear axle which is connected to the rear wheels. If the rear wheels are off the ground you will NOT have an effective parking brake.

[BigGeorge]

Originally Posted by Lostdog

Huh? Your right...the parking brake is on the output shaft of the transmission...on the drive shaft which is connected to the rear axle which is connected to the rear wheels. If the rear wheels are off the ground you will NOT have an effective parking brake.

Not arguing, because I do not know, but why do the back wheels spin when then are off the ground if the parking brake is engaged?

[Lostdog]

Originally Posted by BigGeorge

Not arguing, because I do not know, but why do the back wheels spin when then are off the ground if the parking brake is engaged?

Honest question! The rear axle configuration is what is at play. The rear tires must have the capability to turn at different speeds when turning a corner. If you are turning to the right then the left, or outside tires, will be turning faster than the right, or inside tires. This difference in speed between one side over the other side is accomplished in the "pumpkin" or differential part of the rear axle assembly. A by product of this action is that if both sides of the rear axle are off the ground than you can turn one side but I suggest you watch what is going on with the other side. That wheel maybe even turning in the opposite direction! With the wheels on the ground and are not allowed to turn then the "parking" brake will be effective. This is probably a poor explanation but I really didn't want to get into much detail. If you want more info than I suggest you can Goggle "automotive rear axles" and see what you come up with.