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Old 08-20-2018, 03:40 PM   #1
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My take on CHF or supension in general

My take on CHF

Seems every time I searched the forum for anything over half the posts that came up were about CHF which, to me, always stood for congestive heart failure. I wondered why so many motorhome owners had heart disease.
Well finally someone actually posted Cheap Handling Fix.
After my first 6 hour drive in my stock Georgetown I now understand why so many posts on the subject.

Now my head is spinning from going back over all of the CHF posts.
My impressions after reading are that a handling fix is somewhere between Gods greatest gift to mankind and totally useless.
The CHF in particular is wonderful or useless.
It also seems that unless you spend megabucks you motorhome is a deathtrap or spending megabucks is totally useless.

As always, I am sure, the truth is somewhere in between probably lies in the eyes (experience) of the beholder.

After driving my motorhome for a while now I know I am going to do something I just don’t know what.
Lots of subjective opinions by those who have done the various fixes but I am wondering is there any concrete or objective evidence for one fix over another or a combination of several. They all make mechanical sense.

Is there any data that shows stock motorhomes are more unsafe or accident prone than those with fixes.

Any reproducible measurements relative to sway, bounce, or tail wag?

Why did Ford put 2 holes in the torsion bars if all motor homes come stock with the end rods in the distal hole?

Any insurers give discounts for having done a fix.

I did find some videos on you tube with before and after videos of “their” fix that does seem to show less motion of the type the fix was supposed to address.

At this point my general plan is the CHF front and rear and a steering stabilizer possibly followed by a rear track bar.

Any thoughts on the above questions or my tentative plan?
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:33 PM   #2
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You have the knowledge and tools Grasshopper to accomplish the CHF.
Go forth and conquer your fears and overcome the task at hand.

https://youtu.be/j1wjvP-raOI


Watch the video Grasshopper and have confidence
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:44 PM   #3
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When I had my class A I found that most of the rock and roll was driver induced. I installed heavier sway bars and bushings and started using my arm rests in the down position with my arms resting on them which really did reduce the rock and roll which without my arms resting them was my body reacting to the natural roll of the coach. Just something to think about these coaches are just like driving a big truck.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:11 AM   #4
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My real world experience was performing the CHF on the rear increased handling and ease of driving measurably. Also added the Saf-t-steer and this eliminated the constant correcting that was needed before hand. Note my 2005 Excursion truck had a similar device stock from Ford, so I wonder why they elect not to install on the F53?

Finally, even more improvement from a front end alignment. The MoHo is now easy to drive, much easier than bone stock.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:27 AM   #5
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Before I did the CHF I called Ford. They told me the additional sets of holes are so the suspension can be adjusted and making the adjustments were completely safe.

I am not saying the CHF is perfect but for the time and money spent it is the best thing you can do to improve the ride.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:58 AM   #6
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While most do the CHF with the existing connecting arms, the geometry is off and parts will wear. A longer connecting arm should be used. Without the longer arms, the wheel travel is shortened.
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Old 08-21-2018, 11:36 AM   #7
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My take on CHF or supension in general

Agree on longer links. i used BDS PN 123004 and they have worked great with no problems for over three years. The longer links will keep the sway bar level and avoid problems with sway bar hitting axle when using leveling jacks on motorhome as some have reported when using the original links. I will try and post a picture of BDS links installed. I did have to add a couple of flat washers to have them line up properly as advised by another member from this forum whom had previously completed this modification using these links.
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:30 PM   #8
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I too drive a Georgetown (31L5).

My first outing was white nuckles all the way. Handling was so bad I could barely take my eyes off straight-ahead long enough to look at my mirrors.

Long story short, I opted for a CHF.

Specs on the GT 31L5 is for 92 psi in all tires.

I gradually increased tire pressure on consecutive outings until now I carry 98 psi. Tires are rated for 110 psi.

NO MORE handling issues. Drives like a dream. No more squirily front end. Barely notice when a semi passes.

Now THAT is a CHEAP handling fix.
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Old 08-21-2018, 04:24 PM   #9
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georgetown handling

I was ready to dump our 2018 31L5 after a couple of trips, it was impossible to drive especially near the windmills on California Route 10 with any side wind and the Virgin River out of St George a nightmare. The front bar was replaced by 1 7/8" and a supplemental rear bar of the same size installed. Tire pressure up to 90 all around and it is a different ride. 80 MPH semi's still give a little side push but nothing like before and when you turn the wheel the unit responds. I am sure all of the aftermarket corrections have value, this is what worked for me, about $1300 in parts on line, half that again for installation, not inexpensive but neither was selling the coach.
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Old 08-21-2018, 05:15 PM   #10
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After starting to drive my motorhome back in 2012 I planned on doing the CHP front and rear as well as install SteerSafe on my front wheels.

After installing these items my sway on turns were reduced and with front end alignment and proper tire pressure I ran straight as and arrow down the road with no effort at all.

I still got some tail wag when a semi was passing me and I fixed that by installing the Blue Ox TigerTrak Rear-Axle Stabilizer

It is a device that attached to the main bolts of your differential and the attaches to the frame.
It stabilized both as one and has reduced my sway on turn more and reduced my tail wag when a truck passes me. It may look like nothing but the metal they use is highly dense and heavy.

I have been using most of this since the end of 2012 and still very happy.
This is just another option to help us.

Here is a link to Etrailer where they have a video about the Blue Ox TigerTrak Rear-Axle Stabilizer

https://www.etrailer.com/p-TT2402.ht...d&hhmodel=F-53
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:03 PM   #11
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We just traded in a 2015 GT 364. I did it all...steering stabilizer, front and rear heavy duty anti-sway bars, rear axle stabilizer, wheel alignment at FR expense, and Sumo Springs all for a mere amount of just under $5k!. IMHO, the Sumo Springs did the best, but taken together, I'd say the improvements were "moderate". The hidden penalty is that the ride kept getting just a little bit harder with each item (except for steering stabilizer). So, the better control resulted is a somewhat harder ride.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Vince and Charlette View Post
We just traded in a 2015 GT 364. I did it all...steering stabilizer, front and rear heavy duty anti-sway bars, rear axle stabilizer, wheel alignment at FR expense, and Sumo Springs all for a mere amount of just under $5k!. IMHO, the Sumo Springs did the best, but taken together, I'd say the improvements were "moderate". The hidden penalty is that the ride kept getting just a little bit harder with each item (except for steering stabilizer). So, the better control resulted is a somewhat harder ride.
Someone will get a great deal on your Georgetown.
$5,000 invested on upgrades.

Now with your new Berkshire DP I bet your monthly payments went up a little.
Have fun in your DP with a whole new set of issues.
They all have them.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:37 PM   #13
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That's $5k invested in "modifications", not "upgrades" and like a lot of modifications, the hype really does not pan out and does not justify the cost. It's only money though and will certainly enhance the sales pitch to the unknowing.
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Old 08-22-2018, 07:42 AM   #14
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Monthly payments on the Berkshire are a dream, i.e. $0, because we were able to save for what we wanted instead of borrowing. Paid off credit cards years ago, paid off the cars and finally paid off the house but kept making those payments to our savings. Entered retirement debt free and spent some of the money we had saved on this one big-ticket item. The interest we saved by avoiding all these loans amounts to tens of thousands. It makes the RV life a lot more relaxing. PTL! Not everyone can do this, but most can save at least something and take some of the bite out of the cost of an RV.
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Old 08-22-2018, 08:20 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Vince and Charlette View Post
Monthly payments on the Berkshire are a dream, i.e. $0, because we were able to save for what we wanted instead of borrowing. Paid off credit cards years ago, paid off the cars and finally paid off the house but kept making those payments to our savings. Entered retirement debt free and spent some of the money we had saved on this one big-ticket item. The interest we saved by avoiding all these loans amounts to tens of thousands. It makes the RV life a lot more relaxing. PTL! Not everyone can do this, but most can save at least something and take some of the bite out of the cost of an RV.
That is the only way to go. Glad to hear things worked out for you.
Looking forward in hearing and seeing more about your new ride.
Enjoy your travels.
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Old 08-22-2018, 09:13 AM   #16
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I believe the biggest downfall of Vince's 364, was that he had 19" wheels instead of the now 22.5 with bigger tires. That's a lot of coach for that small of a wheel/tire combo and should never have been built that way. I don't think any amount of modifications could overcome that combination. I myself have done the front and additional rear swaybars and it drives nice. Have about $1100 invested and did the work myself. Takes about 20 min for front and 45min on rear.
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Old 08-22-2018, 10:25 AM   #17
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I believe the biggest downfall of Vince's 364, was that he had 19" wheels instead of the now 22.5 with bigger tires. That's a lot of coach for that small of a wheel/tire combo and should never have been built that way. I don't think any amount of modifications could overcome that combination. I myself have done the front and additional rear swaybars and it drives nice. Have about $1100 invested and did the work myself. Takes about 20 min for front and 45min on rear.
Owned a 2000 Georgie Boy (GB), identical chassis, coach length, weight and 19.5" wheels with not any issues at all. The GB is more aerodynamic and got 2 MPG better than my GT. There were no driving/handling issues. Don't think wheels are an issue.
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Old 08-22-2018, 10:29 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by AquaMan View Post
I believe the biggest downfall of Vince's 364, was that he had 19" wheels instead of the now 22.5 with bigger tires. That's a lot of coach for that small of a wheel/tire combo and should never have been built that way. I don't think any amount of modifications could overcome that combination. I myself have done the front and additional rear swaybars and it drives nice. Have about $1100 invested and did the work myself. Takes about 20 min for front and 45min on rear.
You're absolutely right. But, how did you know I had 19.5 inch wheels? Right after we purchased the GT in 2015, we learned that FR had started installing 22.5" wheels sometime mid-year. As you stated, that might have been the reason. But, I did call Ford and FR about upgrading wheels (very costly) but they said they didn't think it would make any difference. But, despite it's shortfalls, we had many wonderful experiences touring this great country. So, we don't refer to buying a Berkshire as "upgrading" since the GT served us so well. We just bought a different coach to meet different needs.
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Old 08-22-2018, 12:26 PM   #19
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That's $5k invested in "modifications", not "upgrades" and like a lot of modifications, the hype really does not pan out and does not justify the cost. It's only money though and will certainly enhance the sales pitch to the unknowing.
I call BS. I put steering stabilizer, Beefed up front sway bar and additional sway bar on rear of my 2017 FR3. Made the ride 100% better, much safer and relaxing to drive. Looking forward to sumo shocks this year as I had the opportunity to drive FR3 very similar to my own and I noticed the difference right away.
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Old 08-22-2018, 12:27 PM   #20
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Monthly payments on the Berkshire are a dream, i.e. $0, because we were able to save for what we wanted instead of borrowing. Paid off credit cards years ago, paid off the cars and finally paid off the house but kept making those payments to our savings. Entered retirement debt free and spent some of the money we had saved on this one big-ticket item. The interest we saved by avoiding all these loans amounts to tens of thousands. It makes the RV life a lot more relaxing. PTL! Not everyone can do this, but most can save at least something and take some of the bite out of the cost of an RV.
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