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Old 08-29-2012, 02:06 PM   #11
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My 2011 327DS turned turtle and picked itself up off of the ground on the jacks while we were returning home from our first trip. The pump motor burned out and it took me over 8 hours to figure out how to get the jacks back up without damaging the hydraulic lines. It would have taken only ten minutes to get them up if Lippert had documented the location/function of the up/down solenoid on the hydraulic control unit. A shorted diode in the wiring harness had locked the unit in the "push the jacks down" mode which made it impossible to get the jacks back up. Pulling the power wire off of the solenoid was all that was necessary to allow the jacks to be raised using the documented manual procedures.

Phil
Can you give us a little more detail on your solution.
1. Location/function of the up/down solenoid on the hydraulic control
Where is this?

2. Where is the diode in the wiring harness loated that blew located?


3. Pulling the power wire off of the solenoid was all that was necessary to allow the jacks to be raised using the documented manual procedures.

Power off of which solonoid. Picture is worth a thousand words.

Thanks
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:24 PM   #12
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Phil I,ggy

On Aug 18, I wrote a long story of the LCI harness and Diode. Because of the pics I used Word as an attachment. It tells what really happens and whats in the circuit board. Called Hydraulic failures. In ny pics you see most all componerts.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:44 AM   #13
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FR has used a number of different Lippert systems for the jacks. Older coaches had reversible motors while newer ones have unidirectional motors. The newer ones have a control on the hydraulic box that changes where the high pressure hydraulic fluid is sent, to the black or the red hoses. This control is activated by, what I call, the up/down solenoid. It's clearly visible, with the white and black wires going to the plug-in connector.

The default position of the control is the "lift the jacks up" position. If power is removed from the solenoid (pull out the plug), the hydraulic unit will be set to this position and the jacks can be raised. If your motor is working, you can use the control panel to do this or, if the motor is dead, you can remove the rubber cap on the back end of the motor and use a socket and electric drill to run the pump. A rachet driver will also do it but you'll spend a lot of time doing it by hand.

The photo was taken from the back end of the propane tank and shows the hydraulic control unit as seen from the front of the coach. some visible items and their descriptions are:
1. U shaped fitting: the connection point for the red hydraulic hoses.
2. Small grey cylinder under the U fitting: up/down solenoid.
3. Four pipes in upper right: Black hoses to the jacks
4. Grey rectangular connectors under, and to the right of, the four pipes: electrical power for two of the four solenoids controlling individual jacks.
5. Grey cylinder under the first rectangular connector: one of the jack solenoids.
6. Grey cylinder buried under the (big) rectangular connector at the bottom of the photo: motor for the hydraulic pump.

Phil
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Old 08-31-2012, 04:35 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by pmsherman View Post
FR has used a number of different Lippert systems for the jacks. Older coaches had reversible motors while newer ones have unidirectional motors. The newer ones have a control on the hydraulic box that changes where the high pressure hydraulic fluid is sent, to the black or the red hoses. This control is activated by, what I call, the up/down solenoid. It's clearly visible, with the white and black wires going to the plug-in connector.

The default position of the control is the "lift the jacks up" position. If power is removed from the solenoid (pull out the plug), the hydraulic unit will be set to this position and the jacks can be raised. If your motor is working, you can use the control panel to do this or, if the motor is dead, you can remove the rubber cap on the back end of the motor and use a socket and electric drill to run the pump. A ratchet driver will also do it but you'll spend a lot of time doing it by hand.

The photo was taken from the back end of the propane tank and shows the hydraulic control unit as seen from the front of the coach. some visible items and their descriptions are:
1. U shaped fitting: the connection point for the red hydraulic hoses.
2. Small grey cylinder under the U fitting: up/down solenoid.
3. Four pipes in upper right: Black hoses to the jacks
4. Grey rectangular connectors under, and to the right of, the four pipes: electrical power for two of the four solenoids controlling individual jacks.
5. Grey cylinder under the first rectangular connector: one of the jack solenoids.
6. Grey cylinder buried under the (big) rectangular connector at the bottom of the photo: motor for the hydraulic pump.

Phil
Phil,

I notice you have only 4 solenoids for jack control, your slides must be electric. You're right LCI went to a unidirectional upump some time ago and continue to issue instructions for an old reversible motor. I wasted a day to find that out also. I note in your photo which may be some alarming conditions. The 12 volt connectors may only be 12 VDC but they may carry over 100 amperes. High current with corroded terminals could result in very high temperatures. Probably worse, the "hoses" are rated for 2000 psi+ and operate in excess of 1500-1600 psi. They may burst like popcorn if that rust is allowed to continue to consume the crimped fittings and pump fittings. That pressure is always present, when the pump stops the valves cinch down and lock the cylinders in the open or closed position. The presser maintains that position till ordered to move. The black and orange hoses are always under high pressure. It may pay you to have someone carefully clean all those areas and either paint or use a persistent preservative to maintain whats there. Take this a helpful advice, I've had extensive experience with corrosion control (ocean going ships).
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:02 PM   #15
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Phil,

I notice you have only 4 solenoids for jack control, your slides must be electric. You're right LCI went to a unidirectional upump some time ago and continue to issue instructions for an old reversible motor. I wasted a day to find that out also. I note in your photo which may be some alarming conditions. The 12 volt connectors may only be 12 VDC but they may carry over 100 amperes. High current with corroded terminals could result in very high temperatures. Probably worse, the "hoses" are rated for 2000 psi+ and operate in excess of 1500-1600 psi. They may burst like popcorn if that rust is allowed to continue to consume the crimped fittings and pump fittings. That pressure is always present, when the pump stops the valves cinch down and lock the cylinders in the open or closed position. The presser maintains that position till ordered to move. The black and orange hoses are always under high pressure. It may pay you to have someone carefully clean all those areas and either paint or use a persistent preservative to maintain whats there. Take this a helpful advice, I've had extensive experience with corrosion control (ocean going ships).

I had noticed the corrosion on the hose connectors and have been getting concerned about it. The hoses were replaced last November when the major repairs to the leveling system were completed. The same corrosion was also found on the tow bar, on all of the non-painted components. Roadmaster just rebuilt the tow bar for me, replacing all of the bright finish components with new ones. They thought that the corrosion was caused by leaving the bar attached to the RV, with the cover on, when it was in storage. My belief is that it's caused by exposure to salt covered roads, a hazard I encounter in Ohio at the start of a winter trip. Unfortunately, the hydraulic compartment is exposed to the road and probably gets salt spray and water spray from the road.

The motor is current limited by a relatively small fuse; 30 or 20A - I'm not sure which. The electrical connectors, which are better protected by the semi sealing insulators on them are clean and show no signs of corrosion. I believe that the long term solution to the high pressure hose connector will be to get hoses that have corrosion resistant connectors on them. Strangely, the best way to do this is to have the hoses fail while my repair contract is still in force, which will have it pay for the replacements. Even if the hoses are replaced, I still have concerns about exposure of the rest of the hydraulic unit, including the motor. The long term solution may be to enclose the compartment to protect it from road conditions.

I had an interesting discussion with the FR techs about the electric motor driven slides. It turns out that the motor is located in the overhead, above the center of the slide. A socket can be used to manually bring the slide in if the motor fails but there are issues doing this. As the slide moves in, your access to the motor becomes more difficult because it's mounted on the outside wall. I figure the main slide will require a socket, universal joint, then at least a 36", maybe 48" extension to get to the motor when the slide is almost closed. The facia above the slide must be disassembled to get to the motor, another winning design from FR.

Phil
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:54 PM   #16
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The only thing that could cause that much corrosion is salt water/air or you have driven it in an area that uses salt on the roads at winter.
Time to correct and stop before it gets worse.
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