Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-12-2019, 08:47 PM   #51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 159
If I could make a suggestion, I would start at the breaker panel with a meter and check from the screw on each circuit breaker to ground and make sure you have power on each as a starting. I have been an electrician for 45 years and found sometimes a breaker fails to put out power even though it is on. Next I would go to the outlet closest to the one not working on the same wall that still has power and check the connections on it. Had this be the problem in many mobile homes through the years where the receptacle has power but the wire connected to it to the next outlet is not making a good connection. It could be the hot or the neutral wire. Another thing might be worth checking with a meter at the receptacles that do not work from the hot side to the ground (not neutral) and see if you have power. That way you can tell if it is the hot or neutral not making a good connection. Hope you find your problem.
__________________

RCCS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2019, 09:36 PM   #52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,157
Trickier than you think...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCS View Post
If I could make a suggestion, I would start at the breaker panel with a meter and check from the screw on each circuit breaker to ground and make sure you have power on each as a starting. I have been an electrician for 45 years and found sometimes a breaker fails to put out power even though it is on. Next I would go to the outlet closest to the one not working on the same wall that still has power and check the connections on it. Had this be the problem in many mobile homes through the years where the receptacle has power but the wire connected to it to the next outlet is not making a good connection. It could be the hot or the neutral wire. Another thing might be worth checking with a meter at the receptacles that do not work from the hot side to the ground (not neutral) and see if you have power. That way you can tell if it is the hot or neutral not making a good connection. Hope you find your problem.
It's trickier than you think.

RV outlets look like Leviton Decora outlets but they ARE NOT. Here's a link to what they use. This outlet does not have terminal screws, nor does it have those little (unreliable IMHO) holes where you strip the wires and poke them in. You don't have to strip the wires at all, and if you are daisy-chaining, you don't even have to cut the Romex (NM). And no junction box is required. You can put these babies right in the wall.

These outlets (really shallow depth) work by "insulation displacement". You take the back cover off, lay the Romex in the channel, put the cover back on, and screw it down. When you do, metal contacts cut the insulation and contact the copper. Think of a piece of brass sheet metal with a U-shaped cutout just a little smaller than AWG14 copper wire.

With this scheme:
  • It's very unlikely that you will have an open between "in" and "out" since the Romex is never cut.
  • It's difficult to measure voltage in vs. voltage out unless you take the cover off and manage to keep the Romex in the contacts.

I have to admit, I always thought these were Decora outlets in junction boxes until a few months ago.

Larry
__________________

Larry-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 12:19 AM   #53
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: NE Wyoming
Posts: 61
Try a Fluke Voltalert Pen. It will tell you if voltage is present at the outlet. Your problem may be an open neutral also. With something plugged in one half of the receptacle the other half will have voltage (indicated with the Fluke) on both sides of the receptacle. If neither side of the receptacle lights up you have a dead circuit and it requires further trouble shooting. Remember whatever you plug in to the circuit must be turned on to check for an open neutral. I use a lamp and note that the lamp will not light up if you have a dead circuit or an open neutral. Good luck.
Grumpy7159 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 01:14 AM   #54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 656
Your breaker box looks just like the one in my 2011 Georgetown 327. I'd expect that your rig is wired the same way mine is. My knowledge of how the outlets are wired comes from my just rewiring them all to meet a medical requirement. All of your AC outlets except the GFCI protected ones are daisy chained off of a single breaker.

Since some of your AC outlets are working, there's no issue with the breaker. The four non-working outlets are the end of the daisy chain and have become disconnected from the remainder of the chain. The two common causes for this are a wire becoming disconnected at the back of an outlet or a wire that's pinched by a slide. In either case, the first task is to discover where the break is.

If you're lucky, the problem is a connection in the back of one of the outlets that isn't working. If one of the outlets has only one AC wire attached to it, then it's not that outlet. If all of the connections are good, you'll need to locate the next upstream outlet and hopefully the problem lies there.

You can check if one of the three wires in the AC circuit is disconnected by doing the following:
1. Shut off the power to the outlets at the breaker.
2. Verify that there's no power on the outlets.
3. Check continuity between any of the dead outlets and any working outlet. Use a multimeter set to continuity check (usually with a buzzer) or to an ohms scale. Check each of the three wires; ground, neutral (wide slot in socket) , and hot. You'll need to extend one of your meter's probes with a length of wire to do these checks.

Hopefully, you'll have a connection on at least one of the wires. If you do, then you know that the one without the connection is the problem. If there's no connection on any of the wires, then it's a good assumption that there's a broken wire between the working outlets and the dead ones.

With one wire working, you'll need to go to each working outlet and disconnect the wires from the back. Check for continuity between the working wire and the dead outlet. When you find one with continuity, check the continuity between the non-working wire and the dead outlet. If both are good, then the problem was the wire connection in the back of the socket you just disconnected the wires from. Hopefully, reinserting the wire into the back of the socket will fix the problem.

An alternative to tracking down the next upstream outlet using continuity checks is to see if you can get a wire signal tracer. These devices have an injector that places a signal on the wire and a detector that lets you trace where the wire goes. If there's a disconnect at the back of an outlet, one of these should locate it within a few minutes of testing, without removing any of the outlets from the walls. If this device doesn't detect a signal at any of the working outlets, it will help you locate the break in the wire.

Phil
pmsherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 06:47 AM   #55
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-NC View Post
It's trickier than you think.



RV outlets look like Leviton Decora outlets but they ARE NOT. Here's a link to what they use. This outlet does not have terminal screws, nor does it have those little (unreliable IMHO) holes where you strip the wires and poke them in. You don't have to strip the wires at all, and if you are daisy-chaining, you don't even have to cut the Romex (NM). And no junction box is required. You can put these babies right in the wall.



These outlets (really shallow depth) work by "insulation displacement". You take the back cover off, lay the Romex in the channel, put the cover back on, and screw it down. When you do, metal contacts cut the insulation and contact the copper. Think of a piece of brass sheet metal with a U-shaped cutout just a little smaller than AWG14 copper wire.



With this scheme:
  • It's very unlikely that you will have an open between "in" and "out" since the Romex is never cut.
  • It's difficult to measure voltage in vs. voltage out unless you take the cover off and manage to keep the Romex in the contacts.



I have to admit, I always thought these were Decora outlets in junction boxes until a few months ago.



Larry


I just finished tearing the bed apart. Climbed inside the bed to reach back up in there. Checked for continuity on both plugs, traced wires back and forth, in and out of two j-boxes in there that lead back out of the bed, to either underneath the MH or along the wall to the bathroom. My x-ray vision ain’t what it used to be. My thought process of doing the bed was because it was closest to the circuit breaker box, thinking it was the first break in the daisy chain. The whole time I’m taking stuff apart, get madder by the minute. Things happen for an reason, it’s not impossible a wire came loose from the back of an outlet. But not likely. Larry is correct, the design of these outlets, and the way the wires are placed into the channels hold the wires firmly. I’ve replaced two outlets with modern USB style outlets and each time it required a lot of prying to remove the wedged wires. I just find it hard to believe wires came loose from the back side of outlets in difficult to reach locations. The bed, the fireplace cabinet and be-hide the refrigerator are protected from getting struck by something. However...Larry brought up a good idea. The underside of the MH, “cause, the contents may have shifted during flight”. I wouldn’t be surprised something like a lawn chair or ladder shifted and the slide pushed an object into a wire. I will begin looking there.
hartc883 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 07:27 AM   #56
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 28
I'm gonna jump in here and offer 50 years as a master electrician. Go buy a voltage detector. It is about the size of a large pen, has an LED indicator and usually makes a beeping sound when near a live voltage source. Take off the breaker panel cover and check each wire coming off a breaker. And check the incoming wires feeding the breaker panel. This sounds like a bad breaker. Also, check the neutral bus wires for tight connections. No neutral, no voltage. Good luck!
sdfarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 08:29 AM   #57
Senior Member
 
cavie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale Ma
Posts: 3,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-NC View Post
It's trickier than you think.

RV outlets look like Leviton Decora outlets but they ARE NOT. Here's a link to what they use. This outlet does not have terminal screws, nor does it have those little (unreliable IMHO) holes where you strip the wires and poke them in. You don't have to strip the wires at all, and if you are daisy-chaining, you don't even have to cut the Romex (NM). And no junction box is required. You can put these babies right in the wall.

These outlets (really shallow depth) work by "insulation displacement". You take the back cover off, lay the Romex in the channel, put the cover back on, and screw it down. When you do, metal contacts cut the insulation and contact the copper. Think of a piece of brass sheet metal with a U-shaped cutout just a little smaller than AWG14 copper wire.

With this scheme:
  • It's very unlikely that you will have an open between "in" and "out" since the Romex is never cut.
  • It's difficult to measure voltage in vs. voltage out unless you take the cover off and manage to keep the Romex in the contacts.

I have to admit, I always thought these were Decora outlets in junction boxes until a few months ago.

Larry
The problem with these cheap, punch down connections is they get loose. This causes heat which causes the plastic to melt which causes loose connections.

The reason they use this junk is the walls are too thin to use a normal box and outlet set up. To be NEC code compliant and a nonfire hazard the walls would have to be 3.5 " thick.
__________________
2002 27rk Wildcat 5er.
Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale Ma
Retired Master Electrician.

I know you believe that you understand what you think I said but I'm sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant
cavie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 09:15 AM   #58
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 17
I had this problem in my GT 280ds. There is a junction box behind the circuit breaker panel and one of the wire nuts came loose and one of the wires was not connected. I lost a complete circuit.

Not sure if this is your problem but it could be.
jamesrnewton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 09:41 AM   #59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,157
Unlikely to be a bad breaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdfarmer View Post
I'm gonna jump in here and offer 50 years as a master electrician. Go buy a voltage detector. It is about the size of a large pen, has an LED indicator and usually makes a beeping sound when near a live voltage source. Take off the breaker panel cover and check each wire coming off a breaker. And check the incoming wires feeding the breaker panel. This sounds like a bad breaker. Also, check the neutral bus wires for tight connections. No neutral, no voltage. Good luck!
It takes a while to learn to take your residential/commercial hat off and put your RV hat on. The RV stuff is completely different.

In an RV, there is only one breaker for all the non-GFI outlets. If the breaker were bad, as you suggest, no outlet would work. In this case all work except four.

My other post, "It's trickier than you think..." discusses why it's not likely to be a connector at an outlet box. Cavie points out that the unreliable insulation displacement connectors can cause a single outlet to fail but the passthrough, downstream outlets will continue to work.

You really have to think differently about RVs. In this situation there are really only two likely possibilities:
  1. There is a Romex (NM) segment going to a slideout with a wire that has broken through repeated flexing. (Really should use AWG14 stranded wire for this segment, not solid)
  2. Possibly there is a junction box somewhere with a bad connection. This would be someplace where the daisy chain splits into two branches. (My Cherokee 38P has the converter and distribution panel at the absolute front, so there's no reason to do this, but I could see it being done in a unit where the panel is in the middle.)
Hmm. Looking at (1) and (2) above together, I wonder if there's a junction box where solid and stranded wire are joined, going to the slideout. I can't recall whether the OP said the outlets were in a slideout.

Larry
Larry-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2019, 09:56 AM   #60
Senior Member
 
bubbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,675
Under the right slide there is a panel that when removed (via screws) allows access to a junction area. It might be the production junction for power distribution of the non GFCI receptacles. Put the right slide out and look underneath it and you should see a couple grey tubes routing power to the slide receptacles. You should also see where and how the tubes disappear toward the center of the coach and you will see how to gain access to the wiring harness origination routed through the tubes. Just thinking.
__________________

bubbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
power, refrigerator

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:04 AM.