Propane safety shut off valve

[gpci]

Does anybody know if it’s normal for the propane safety shut off valve to be hot to the touch . One would think it shouldn’t be hot ( valve is located directly attached to the propane tank )

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by gpci

Does anybody know if it’s normal for the propane safety shut off valve to be hot to the touch . One would think it shouldn’t be hot ( valve is located directly attached to the propane tank )

What kind of vehicle? TT with tanks mounted on tongue and in the sunlight under a cover? Or a MH with a chassis mounted tank inside a compartment.

The valves on my tanks (A TT with two 30# tanks on the tongue) can be quite warm if the sun has heated the air under the cover (black). The handles are relatively small in mass and can heat/cool rather rapidly.

Not familiar with valves on chassis mounted tanks but if solenoid operated, and electrical power keeps it open, I would think it could get warm.

I guess the answer requires more information as to what your application is.

[gpci]

2013 Georgetown xl motorhome

[bubbles]

Yes, extremely hot. Normal.

[gpci]

Tks bubbles [emoji1303]

[fonzie]

Originally Posted by bubbles

Yes, extremely hot. Normal.

X2 as it is energized all the time when using propane. LP detector inside coach will shut valve off if detector alarms.

[NO3putt]

Yes hot or warm is normal since it takes voltage to hold it open.

[TitanMike]

This begs the question "Why". It would seem that a solenoid drawing enough power to make it HOT would also tend to run batteries down quicker.

Would seem like a valve that was opened by a solenoid and then mechanically latched, released by another electric signal from an emergency shut down "Panic Button" would extend the battery life when boondocking.

Might be more convenient to turn on and off electrically but I think the manual valves on my external tanks lead to longer battery life.

Just thinking out loud.

[bubbles]

Originally Posted by fonzie

X2 as it is energized all the time when using propane. LP detector inside coach will shut valve off if detector alarms.

It is energized anytime 12 volts is on the coach. The fuse for the O2/CO/LP detector is a 5 amp and may or may not be connected directly to the coach batteries. My fuse is located on the battery disconnected side but I have to have the batteries connected for charging while in storage so I just remove the 5 amp fuse (O2/CO/LP detector not needed).

[bubbles]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

This begs the question "Why". It would seem that a solenoid drawing enough power to make it HOT would also tend to run batteries down quicker.

Would seem like a valve that was opened by a solenoid and then mechanically latched, released by another electric signal from an emergency shut down "Panic Button" would extend the battery life when boondocking.

Might be more convenient to turn on and off electrically but I think the manual valves on my external tanks lead to longer battery life.

Just thinking out loud.

Immediate shutoff is the goal. To many actions is not good. Removing the 12 volts (alarm mode) allows the spring loaded shutoff plunger to shut off the flow instantaneously. Just a guess.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by bubbles

Immediate shutoff is the goal. To many actions is not good. Removing the 12 volts (alarm mode) allows the spring loaded shutoff plunger to shut off the flow instantaneously. Just a guess.

I've seen safety valves that use electrical signals to open and close, my guess is that the factories are just using the cheapest approach with no regard to efficiency.

There are many solenoid valves that operate on low current. Some in the 40-50 ma range. Yes, they are low pressure valves but certainly could be used to shut off gas AFTER the regulator. Prices for the ones I've seen start just below $100 and go up from there.

I've seen some LPG solenoid shutoff valves for as little as $20 from Walmart.


As I said earlier, it sure seems like a waste of electricity when off the grid and it seems like there should be a better alternative.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Yes, they are low pressure valves but certainly could be used to shut off gas AFTER the regulator. Prices for the ones I've seen start just below $100 and go up from there.


As I said earlier, it sure seems like a waste of electricity when off the grid and it seems like there should be a better alternative.

I agree, the power consumption is annoying. But there are many threads on leaking regulators due to failed diaphragms. No big deal when tongue-mounted in a travel trailer. A very big deal inside a motor coach. Maybe best to have the shut off on the high side.

Larry

[pmsherman]

The original equipment solenoid on my 2011 Georgetown also ran hot. Eventually, it got hot enough to melt the varnish coating the coil wire which shorted out and drew enough current to blow the fuse. This, of course, meant no propane in the rig.

Unfortunately, the solenoid is not a replaceable item. You can purchase a new propane detector kit that includes the solenoid which is what I did. Of course, the local repair shop near me when it failed couldn't get me in for the repair for two weeks so they sent one of their technicians out to my rig to replace it. The new solenoid had different sized fittings on it so additional adapters were needed. The replacement solenoid draws half the current of the original one and runs much cooler. The replacement also has an enclosed coil while the original one had an exposed coil.

I sealed the replacement detector in a plastic bad and am holding it to install when the one that came with the rig reaches its service life. The detector has a much longer shelf life than service life.

Phil

[EricNJ]

Originally Posted by pmsherman

The original equipment solenoid on my 2011 Georgetown also ran hot. Eventually, it got hot enough to melt the varnish coating the coil wire which shorted out and drew enough current to blow the fuse. This, of course, meant no propane in the rig.

Unfortunately, the solenoid is not a replaceable item. You can purchase a new propane detector kit that includes the solenoid which is what I did. Of course, the local repair shop near me when it failed couldn't get me in for the repair for two weeks so they sent one of their technicians out to my rig to replace it. The new solenoid had different sized fittings on it so additional adapters were needed. The replacement solenoid draws half the current of the original one and runs much cooler. The replacement also has an enclosed coil while the original one had an exposed coil.

I sealed the replacement detector in a plastic bad and am holding it to install when the one that came with the rig reaches its service life. The detector has a much longer shelf life than service life.

Phil

Where is the fuse for the solenoid? I’m in a similar situation and not sure if it’s the fuse or the valve?

[Dodge Guy]

Yes they run hot. Normal. I’ve read they make one that is open with no voltage and closes with voltage. I wouldn’t want that. In some type of failure the propane wouldn’t shutoff.

The previous owner of mine must’ve boondocked a lot. He installed a shutoff for the LP alarm, which then shuts off the valve.

[pmsherman]

Originally Posted by EricNJ

Where is the fuse for the solenoid? I’m in a similar situation and not sure if it’s the fuse or the valve?

My recollection is that the fuse is located at the house batteries. If the fuse is blown, i'd check for a short in the coil before replacing it because a short will just blow the fuse again.

If you want to try a simple test, pull the fuse. If it's blown, replace it with the probes of a DC ammeter set to 10A. Have a partner watch the propane detector to let you know when it finishes initializing and starts to power the solenoid. If the current draw is too high for the fuse you pulled, the solenoid is shorted.


The second time mine failed, I was able to find a replacement solenoid on ebaY for a lot less than a complete new kit. You also need to remember that the replacement kit the repair center installed had a solenoid with different sized fittings than the original one. The adapters he had with him allowed using the solenoid with the smaller fittings.


I would strongly recommend AGAINST changing this solenoid yourself unless you have experience working with natural gas/propane lines. A mistake here could not only cost you your rig but also your life.


Phil

[EricNJ]

Originally Posted by pmsherman

My recollection is that the fuse is located at the house batteries. If the fuse is blown, i'd check for a short in the coil before replacing it because a short will just blow the fuse again.

If you want to try a simple test, pull the fuse. If it's blown, replace it with the probes of a DC ammeter set to 10A. Have a partner watch the propane detector to let you know when it finishes initializing and starts to power the solenoid. If the current draw is too high for the fuse you pulled, the solenoid is shorted.


The second time mine failed, I was able to find a replacement solenoid on ebaY for a lot less than a complete new kit. You also need to remember that the replacement kit the repair center installed had a solenoid with different sized fittings than the original one. The adapters he had with him allowed using the solenoid with the smaller fittings.


I would strongly recommend AGAINST changing this solenoid yourself unless you have experience working with natural gas/propane lines. A mistake here could not only cost you your rig but also your life.


Phil

So pulled the fuse and the CO detector went out. That means I found the right fuse and the fuse isn’t the problem (bummer). So now very likely the solenoid right?

Seems like an easy replacement. What makes this change out harder than other plumbing changes?

Thanks Again for all the great guidance!

[pmsherman]

Originally Posted by EricNJ

So pulled the fuse and the CO detector went out. That means I found the right fuse and the fuse isn’t the problem (bummer). So now very likely the solenoid right?

Seems like an easy replacement. What makes this change out harder than other plumbing changes?

Thanks Again for all the great guidance!

Since the fuse wasn't blown, there are two possibilities. First, the propane detector may have failed; second, the coil in the solenoid may be open instead of shorted. If you test this at the solenoid, you'll need waterproof splices to reattach the cut wires at the solenoid. You can test both the solenoid and the detector by disconnecting the solenoid wire behind the detector. With the detector showing a green light, there should be 12V on the line going to the solenoid. If it's not there, then the detector's solenoid relay has failed. If you find 12V, measure the resistance between the wire going to the solenoid and ground. If it is infinite resistance, the solenoid coil is open or the wiring going to the solenoid is broken.


Propane fittings sometimes tighten backwards from normal nuts. While a leaking joint in a water pipe is easy to see and fix, propane leaks aren't as easy to spot. You can also expect that you'll need size adapters if the fittings on the replacement solenoid are different sized than the originals. You'll need to open up the nut driven pressure fitting which should be after the regulator to disconnect everything without twisting up the propane line. This fitting allows the pipe going into it to rotate before the nut is tightened. It should be one of the ones that works backwards from a common nut.



Phil

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by pmsherman

Propane fittings sometimes tighten backwards from normal nuts.

The only left-hand thread I am aware of is the old-style fitting on tanks and the mating connector on the hose-end.

Originally Posted by pmsherman

Propane fittings sometimes tighten backwards from normal nuts. While a leaking joint in a water pipe is easy to see and fix, propane leaks aren't as easy to spot.

Very easy. Put a little bit of dishwashing liquid in a coffee cup. Fill with water. Stir with a paint brush. Then brush the liquid onto every joint with the paint brush. Look for bubbles. This never fails.

Originally Posted by pmsherman

You can also expect that you'll need size adapters if the fittings on the replacement solenoid are different sized than the originals. You'll need to open up the nut driven pressure fitting which should be after the regulator to disconnect everything without twisting up the propane line. This fitting allows the pipe going into it to rotate before the nut is tightened. It should be one of the ones that works backwards from a common nut.

Pressure fitting? You may mean compression fitting. There are three types: flare fitting, reverse-flare fitting, and compression ring fitting. All three of these types allow the joint to be tightened without spinning the line on either side.

This is not rocket science.

[EricNJ]

Originally Posted by pmsherman

Since the fuse wasn't blown, there are two possibilities. First, the propane detector may have failed; second, the coil in the solenoid may be open instead of shorted. If you test this at the solenoid, you'll need waterproof splices to reattach the cut wires at the solenoid. You can test both the solenoid and the detector by disconnecting the solenoid wire behind the detector. With the detector showing a green light, there should be 12V on the line going to the solenoid. If it's not there, then the detector's solenoid relay has failed. If you find 12V, measure the resistance between the wire going to the solenoid and ground. If it is infinite resistance, the solenoid coil is open or the wiring going to the solenoid is broken.


Propane fittings sometimes tighten backwards from normal nuts. While a leaking joint in a water pipe is easy to see and fix, propane leaks aren't as easy to spot. You can also expect that you'll need size adapters if the fittings on the replacement solenoid are different sized than the originals. You'll need to open up the nut driven pressure fitting which should be after the regulator to disconnect everything without twisting up the propane line. This fitting allows the pipe going into it to rotate before the nut is tightened. It should be one of the ones that works backwards from a common nut.



Phil

So my new solenoid valve’s openings are smaller than the exiting piping as was the case for others here. If I use adapters to reduce the size of my piping this will restrict flow some amount. Any risk this will be end up being too small a pipe thus and starve the furnace and or water heater and or stove if things are run at the same time? I’m assuming FR went with the size pipe and a different solenoid for a reason. Dunno here.