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Old 10-22-2011, 08:07 AM   #21
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When you own a recreation vehicle of any makes except a few in the higher prices brackets you have to be a jack of all trades in order to cope with your toy!!!!
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:00 AM   #22
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When you own a recreation vehicle of any makes except a few in the higher prices brackets you have to be a jack of all trades in order to cope with your toy!!!!
I absolutely agree. We have not had an issue that required a warranty claim or even a visit back to our dealer. I grew up on the New England coast boating. I was given my first boat and motor when I was 10 years old. I learned at a very Young age, that if I wanted to enjoy "my toy" I had better learn how to work on it and keep it running (both boat and motor were very used). That has carried on throughout my life. When I was younger and could only afford used cars, I learned to work on them (I am NO mechanic). When I was able to afford new cars, I often found that I would have to return to the dealer for little warranty items (I could have fixed myself, but why, it's under warranty). A TT, 5'er, MH, is the same thing but much larger, so the issues are amplified. As I grew, and grew into larger "toys", my learning also grew.

If you have entered this "hobby" or are thinking of entering this hobby, be prepared. Things are going to break. You will have 3 choices: 1. Fix it yourself and continue on your holiday. 2. Find a warranty facility and have them repair it and enjoy your holiday. 3. Get mad at the manufacturer, the dealer, the RV washer, the public works dept, the CG owner, etc... and totally ruin your whole RV experience.

We don't live in a perfect world. When was the last time you bought an appliance, car, boat, lawn mower, snow blower, etc... and got the "value" you expected out of it? Been a long time for me! We purchased a new luxury car for my DW early this past year. She drives it 98% of the time. I drove it a couple months ago and heard a sound I didn't like from the drive train. We brought it to the dealer and advised them. They heard it, agreed that something is not right, turned the info over to the manufacturer and now we wait. Either we will get a fix or due to the fact a case has been issued, it will be handled if and when there is a failure. No worries, a little disappointment, but when all is said and done, we will continue on with our life. Enjoying every minute.

Enjoy RVing. There's lots of speed bumps.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:20 AM   #23
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I absolutely agree. We have not had an issue that required a warranty claim or even a visit back to our dealer. I grew up on the New England coast boating. I was given my first boat and motor when I was 10 years old. I learned at a very Young age, that if I wanted to enjoy "my toy" I had better learn how to work on it and keep it running (both boat and motor were very used). That has carried on throughout my life. When I was younger and could only afford used cars, I learned to work on them (I am NO mechanic). When I was able to afford new cars, I often found that I would have to return to the dealer for little warranty items (I could have fixed myself, but why, it's under warranty). A TT, 5'er, MH, is the same thing but much larger, so the issues are amplified. As I grew, and grew into larger "toys", my learning also grew.

If you have entered this "hobby" or are thinking of entering this hobby, be prepared. Things are going to break. You will have 3 choices: 1. Fix it yourself and continue on your holiday. 2. Find a warranty facility and have them repair it and enjoy your holiday. 3. Get mad at the manufacturer, the dealer, the RV washer, the public works dept, the CG owner, etc... and totally ruin your whole RV experience.

We don't live in a perfect world. When was the last time you bought an appliance, car, boat, lawn mower, snow blower, etc... and got the "value" you expected out of it? Been a long time for me! We purchased a new luxury car for my DW early this past year. She drives it 98% of the time. I drove it a couple months ago and heard a sound I didn't like from the drive train. We brought it to the dealer and advised them. They heard it, agreed that something is not right, turned the info over to the manufacturer and now we wait. Either we will get a fix or due to the fact a case has been issued, it will be handled if and when there is a failure. No worries, a little disappointment, but when all is said and done, we will continue on with our life. Enjoying every minute.

Enjoy RVing. There's lots of speed bumps.
To answer your question, i have owned cars that I have driven over 200,000 miles that have needed minimal repairs; appliances for 15 years or more that have not fallen apart. To accept the multitude of problems as acceptable only perpetuates the shoddy construction and consumer be damned attitude. RV owners are being played as suckers. If someone smacks you in the face do you thank them or do you defend yourself? Manufacturers need to be held accountable for the products they produce, if no one complains they have no incentive to build a better product.
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Old 10-22-2011, 12:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by kbrown1075 View Post
I absolutely agree. We have not had an issue that required a warranty claim or even a visit back to our dealer. I grew up on the New England coast boating. I was given my first boat and motor when I was 10 years old. I learned at a very Young age, that if I wanted to enjoy "my toy" I had better learn how to work on it and keep it running (both boat and motor were very used). That has carried on throughout my life. When I was younger and could only afford used cars, I learned to work on them (I am NO mechanic). When I was able to afford new cars, I often found that I would have to return to the dealer for little warranty items (I could have fixed myself, but why, it's under warranty). A TT, 5'er, MH, is the same thing but much larger, so the issues are amplified. As I grew, and grew into larger "toys", my learning also grew.

If you have entered this "hobby" or are thinking of entering this hobby, be prepared. Things are going to break. You will have 3 choices: 1. Fix it yourself and continue on your holiday. 2. Find a warranty facility and have them repair it and enjoy your holiday. 3. Get mad at the manufacturer, the dealer, the RV washer, the public works dept, the CG owner, etc... and totally ruin your whole RV experience.

We don't live in a perfect world. When was the last time you bought an appliance, car, boat, lawn mower, snow blower, etc... and got the "value" you expected out of it? Been a long time for me! We purchased a new luxury car for my DW early this past year. She drives it 98% of the time. I drove it a couple months ago and heard a sound I didn't like from the drive train. We brought it to the dealer and advised them. They heard it, agreed that something is not right, turned the info over to the manufacturer and now we wait. Either we will get a fix or due to the fact a case has been issued, it will be handled if and when there is a failure. No worries, a little disappointment, but when all is said and done, we will continue on with our life. Enjoying every minute.

Enjoy RVing. There's lots of speed bumps.
You make very valid points and I don't disagree. However, I will present you and others with this challenge... the more we accept status quo, the more we will get status quo. As customers, we must demand quality (be it in a recreational vehicle, appliance, car, mower, house etc). If we don't demand it and vote with our purchases, what reason does any manufacturer have to produce it? If we accept a poor quality product, then the manufacturer has no reason to step up quality.

That being said, I thoroughly enjoy my PrimeTime Tracer. The quality is acceptable to me and any issues I have had have been handled expeditiously by PT employees and management.
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Old 10-23-2011, 07:44 AM   #25
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You make very valid points and I don't disagree. However, I will present you and others with this challenge... the more we accept status quo, the more we will get status quo. As customers, we must demand quality (be it in a recreational vehicle, appliance, car, mower, house etc). If we don't demand it and vote with our purchases, what reason does any manufacturer have to produce it? If we accept a poor quality product, then the manufacturer has no reason to step up quality.

That being said, I thoroughly enjoy my PrimeTime Tracer. The quality is acceptable to me and any issues I have had have been handled expeditiously by PT employees and management.

I agree with what you have said. My solution is not to buy the product again when time comes. I purchased an SUV 10 years ago that the front end would shimmy at 60 to 65 mph. I returned it to the dealer several times with no resolution. I contacted the manufacturer and was told that they could not help me. My DW would not drive the SUV and we needed to move to one vehicle (I ended up with a take home company vehicle) that was capable of towing our boat. We had to trade in her car and the SUV, and took a $7,000.00 loss due to the market of that particular SUV. I promised that I would never buy a vehicle made by that manufacturer. I stand by that for the rest of my time here. That is how I handle poor quality and workmanship. I am no different, just can't write a book. I find some problems acceptable, as long as they are handle in a professional manner. There are so many components of our RV's that are made by other manufacturers that have no clue who is getting the product. I try to look at things objectively. I don't want, and have not had to, drag the TT 2 hours to the dealer. What small issues presented themselves, I took care of. Every time we used our boat there were issues to deal with, dead battery, light bulb out, loose screws, etc.. I guess I am just used to the small things as part of using something. I do wish EVERYONE great enjoyment out of their RV and you find successful resolution to your issues.
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Old 10-23-2011, 01:30 PM   #26
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Read "Factory Work Problems" I put in some time ago. I feel for you all and hope you get all your problems taken care of by Forest River but don't whole your breath. I have had four trailers and three motorhomes but my 2004 ts 370 was by far the worest .the others were all fixed by the dealers but when the dealer telles you this needs to go back to the factory,you can bet its bad.
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:40 AM   #27
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I would never consider buying new from any of the low-to-middle price range RV manufacturers. Can't afford to anyway, but the quality issues put me off even if I could.

Having done some cabinet re-build work on my GT325 due to water ingress in the living room slide, I'm amazed at how it was built. It looks like the cabinets were made from raw materials inside the rig, not pre-assembled and then installed. As far as I could tell, the cabinets (overhead the dinette and sofa) were held in place solely by screws in a 1/8" lauan plywood skin glued to the block stryofoam insulation. All but four of the screws fell out as I was taking the old cabinets down. The screws were all rusty from water leakage. The new ones that I built are screwed to the longitudinal square steel tube structure inside the ceiling.

Sure, the manufacturer of the RV can't control quality problems with supplier items (fridge, furnace, water heater, etc.) other than switching brands, but the competitors' gear often isn't any better. The RV builder DOES have control over the "house" structrure, its ouside skin, the slide seals, the cabinets and furnishings it builds. Quality there can be poor to middling, if my rig is anything to go by.

Real quality has to be engineeered in with designs that can't get messed up no matter how basic the skills of the assemblers are. Post manufacture QC can't fix dumb designs that the assembly workers mess up. Evidence from my Georgetown suggests that there are some fundamental flaws in both design and production engineering which I'll end up fixing over the years.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:11 PM   #28
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I personally am offending/insulted by any comment that shoddy quality should be accepted as the norm of owning an RV.
Our Palomino unit had numerous problems that are just plain sloppy. From plumbing fittings that were tightened no more than finger tight (leaks), to fresh water tank fittings that were not even connected. There is NO excuse for the sloppy workmanship we saw.
My analogy is to your car comparrison is that when you buy a car, you simply expect all four wheels to be properly attached; you would not ever consider the possiblity that one of the wheels lugnuts was only tightened finger tight.
How on earth can anyone rationalize fingertight connections on an RV as "normal"?
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:20 PM   #29
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The solution to the problem is for buyers to go over the new units with a fine tooth comb, and not take possession of a unit unless it is in acceptable condition. The wrench in that argument is that most people are either too excited and just want to get their new toy home, or don't have the knowledge to know what SHOULD be acceptable.

I'm as guilty as the rest. When I took possession of my new Starcraft popup several years ago, the craftmanship was awful. Lots of missing or mis-directed screws were the least of things that I had to fix. The dealer walk-thru on that unit was very rushed (due to it being the end of the day), but I don't expect they were looking to correct problems anyway.

So far we've been lucky with our recent upgrade (Roo 233S), and the workmanship seems to be pretty decent. Our walk-thru with this dealer was much more comprehensive, and they are still in contact with us to ensure everything is to satisfaction.

We spent a good 3+ hours with our dealer going over the unit, and left with a good understanding of what potential problems to look for.

I would think it would not take long for a company to correct the problem of poor quality or go out of business if customers were regularly refusing to accept units that didn't meet expectations.

All of the less expensive TT builders are guilty of the described quality control issues, so if ONE could churn out a consistently superior product at an affordable price, they'd win! The problem is, we the consumers keep accepting the junk they produce, so what incentive is there to change.
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:41 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by shurack24 View Post
I personally am offending/insulted by any comment that shoddy quality should be accepted as the norm of owning an RV.
Our Palomino unit had numerous problems that are just plain sloppy. From plumbing fittings that were tightened no more than finger tight (leaks), to fresh water tank fittings that were not even connected. There is NO excuse for the sloppy workmanship we saw.
My analogy is to your car comparrison is that when you buy a car, you simply expect all four wheels to be properly attached; you would not ever consider the possiblity that one of the wheels lugnuts was only tightened finger tight.
How on earth can anyone rationalize fingertight connections on an RV as "normal"?


While you are right that you cannot compare cars,boats,truck etc etc
most items if not all should be caught at the dealer!
No person should take delivery without a proper and adequate pdi!
turn knobs twist levers flick switches run water move slides.
no only is pdi in affect to familiarize you with the rv and fine any defects before you take delivery.
Google pdi checklist and see how in-depth it is.
if the dealer rushes you through pdi that means something to me.
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