Really dumb question

Sbryant · 12-18-2013, 10:29 AM

Ok so I have been given a manual by FR on the artic pak system and learned that it should not be turned on while plugged in to shore power. And it should not be turned on when there is no liquid in the tanks. We always empty all tanks when we expect to have freezing weather (MS). In my old motor home I just turned the ice maker off and left the fridge "on" and never ran any heat at night. Now I'm talking about when the unit is parked, plugged up in my yard on its pad. I keep my fridge stocked. With this new unit and with this residential fridge I seemed to have list my footing. I have been trying to keep heat on in the unit in cold weather, the ice maker is off but the fridge is on. All holding tanks are empty and no water is hooked up (although we do not blow air thru the tanks). Do I really need to heat the unit under these circumstances? Will the fridge be damaged in the cold environment?

Iggy · 12-18-2013, 11:24 AM

Where are you located? What is the forecast? High and lows.
I tried to find one question in your thread.

I think you asked....
1. Can I have the ArticPak on while plugged into shore power when tanks are empty?
If tanks are empty you shouldn't have to turn in on.
If you have your water system empty I would not turn the Artic Pak on.

2. Do I need to heat the interior while the refrigerator on?
It all depends if you get really low temps for long periods of time. 2-3 days or more.
If it is that cold yet. You should have a small heater to keep interior 40-45 degrees.

Hope this helps you.

Sbryant · 12-18-2013, 11:46 AM

Yes, any info is helpful. We live in south central Mississippi. Usually our temps are mostly moderate (close to freezing but not quite there). But this month has been exceptionally cold for nights on end. So I will adjust my behavior, turn the artic pak off. And I'll turn on a 1500 watt ceremic heater if the temp is supposed to get to 32 or below. Otherwise I'm good to go. We women live to worry - especially about a new very expensive toy.

youroo · 12-18-2013, 12:05 PM

For what its worth if the Res.Refer.has a Icemaker the inlet valve on the back and the supply hose to it, must be protected from (Freezing).Some icemaker valves drain when the supply hose is drained,but not (ALL). Call the MFG.service center for proper info!

Youroo!!

intercept · 12-19-2013, 01:19 AM

When you are not using your rig drain and then blow out the lines with an air compressor. CW has an adaptor to connect a compressed air quick connect line to the pressurized water hose connection inlet. After you are done, pressurize the lines again and turn on the chilled water in the door until the air come out followed by cycling the ice cube maker till air comes out there too. Don't forget the toilet.
There are other things that we need to do up north here in Jersey but this should be just fine in your place (By valor and arms).

alparmer · 12-19-2013, 07:52 AM

I still don't see why you can't have the artic heaters on while on shore power. I'd have to dig into it, but I'm assuming that they run off of the house batteries which are maintained by the charger which is supplied 110ac from either shore or generator. It's kind of like when I was told by the salesman to never run the generator when hooked up with shore power. Now, that's true if your coach doesn't have an automatic switch...like ours does.

I can understand the statement on not to run the artic pack without liquids...sort off. I know it's bad on an electric water heater because the elements will self destruct without water....but the arctic pack consists of a number of heating blankets and IMO doesn't matter.

What the manual you receive says just doesn't make sense...but ya never know.

AquaMan · 12-19-2013, 08:36 AM

Without liquid, I'm guessing, there is the possibility of overheating the tank and/or pad. The tank composite material may not handle the heat and warp. Again, just guessing.

Ford Idaho · 12-19-2013, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquaMan

Without liquid, I'm guessing, there is the possibility of overheating the tank and/or pad. The tank composite material may not handle the heat and warp. Again, just guessing.

If the tanks are empty is there a real reason for using the Artic package?
Does it heat the water lines?

F and E Damp · 12-19-2013, 10:54 PM

The Arctic Pack on my rig, had I not disconnected the POS, would draw 28 amps (4 heaters at 7 amps each) from the 12V system to heat up the sewage to 64 degrees. There's no way to adjust the thermostats.

There's also no intelligence in the system to tell whether the tanks have anything in them. I was very concerned about 84 Watts in a relatively small area of a plastic tank melting through and wrecking the tank.

IMO, it's one of the dumbest systems ever foisted on the RV community.

intercept · 12-20-2013, 12:21 AM

he arctic packs are designed for cold weather use (not storage) so your tanks and line do not freeze. No water in the poly tanks and the heaters will melt and deform the tanks. It has to be a simple system so we don't pay much and it work w/o breaking. Long term storage of water in the line (stagnant) is asking for mold and material growth issues.

alparmer · 12-20-2013, 07:55 AM

Not sure what the melting point is on the material on the tanks, but I can tell you it's a heck lot more than the heaters can put out. Or let's say you are camping on a black top in the middle of summer and the temps get up in the triple digits...I wonder what the radiated temps are like in those tanks.

IMO, it's a nice simple system and very nice to have if you need it. Wouldn't turn them on unless your were hooked up to shore or gen power though. We've already used it a couple of times since freezing temps came a little early this year and we weren't done camping. Didn't want poopcicles.

alparmer · 12-20-2013, 08:29 AM

If the tanks are made of Low Density Polyethylene or LDPE, the melting point is 248°F 120°C

MotocrossCamper · 12-20-2013, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F and E Damp

The Arctic Pack on my rig, had I not disconnected the POS, would draw 28 amps (4 heaters at 7 amps each) from the 12V system to heat up the sewage to 64 degrees. There's no way to adjust the thermostats. There's also no intelligence in the system to tell whether the tanks have anything in them. I was very concerned about 84 Watts in a relatively small area of a plastic tank melting through and wrecking the tank. IMO, it's one of the dumbest systems ever foisted on the RV community.

i
I completely disagree. I have never been worried about a glorified heating pad ruining my tanks. We use our arctic pack every year and have never had an issue. When camping in temps around 15 degrees I really don't want to try and dump frozen waste! Yes they draw a lot of power but anything that produces heat will. If you don't have a genny or shore power to keep things charged then you probably don't want to use them. There is also no reason to use it if you have no liquid in your tanks.

Sbryant · 12-20-2013, 08:49 AM

When they were first explained to me nobody said not to use them without any liquid in them. But since we do not blow air thru the tanks I guess there might have been alittle fluid in them. Anyway, the manual did tell us that. Fortunately very rarely do we camp in freezing (32 degrees) weather. We do camp year round, but in Mississippi we rarely have harsh winters.

garbonz · 12-20-2013, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MotocrossCamper

i
I completely disagree. I have never been worried about a glorified heating pad ruining my tanks. We use our arctic pack every year and have never had an issue. When camping in temps around 15 degrees I really don't want to try and dump frozen waste! Yes they draw a lot of power but anything that produces heat will. If you don't have a genny or shore power to keep things charged then you probably don't want to use them. There is also no reason to use it if you have no liquid in your tanks.

X2. They instructions you got should have said; DO NOT use them unless hooked up to power (generator or shore) as they use a lot of amps (as noted earlier, 7-9 amps per pad). They DON'T NEED to be used if the tanks are empty, but they will not melt anything.

In the North County (or Colorado Mountains) lots of people use pad heaters on car batteries and oil pans and there are LOTS of products for that. Typically those systems don't have thermostats on them unless you use an external one. Look here:

Kat's

Here is a website to one of the most commonly used systems. Note that they have a lot more than just the tank heaters that FR uses, they can be used to protect the entire system. They are not cheap tho. Lots of information here.

UltraHeat, Inc. - Home.

I think they are a great addition to the RV systems but like anything you need to look into them a bit to know how they work and how to use them.

sherman12 · 12-20-2013, 12:13 PM

just to clarify, it doesn't matter if you run the generator if on shore power when you don't have an automatic switch because the only way to draw currant from the genny is to plug the shore power cord into the outlet in the electrical bay, but it is already plugged into the pedestal or home outlet. On the other hand, if you do have the auto switch you can plug into shore power and run the genny. You then are hoping the auto switch recognizes the shore power feed only and not both, yikes!

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