Solved- GT Electrical Nightmares

[cfsoistman]

Another electrical nightmare with my 370. Last fall we woke up to find no power in any of the non-GFIC receptacles. After just about diassembling the whole coach we were never able to find where the break in the lines was. We had lost a neutral and found if I plugged the box under the bed that's under the plywood bottom base into an extension cord from another circuit I had all of the power back. Somewhere the main feed lost it's neutral and we could find any other junction boxes. The remedy was it run a new main feed under the coach and disconnect the old feed. Problem solved or at least I thought it was completely solved. Yesterday lost power to all of the receptacle forward of the entrance door. Same circuit but this time it's only just those 4 receptacles, all the others work. Lost neautral again. There a bundle of wires inside the front cap at the top and I'm hoping the problem can be solved once I figure out how to get in there. I believe these cheap pieces of junk receptacles are the biggest problem. Anything that relies on pushing a wire in and relying on a pinch eventually loosens from weather changes and vibrations. Gee lets see "Doesn't that pertain to every RV" ?

[jsutherl]

Sounds like the same layout for wiring as my 2008. When I put in my inverter I added a sub panel and I had to figure out where all the romex went.

From the old breaker panel there was one wire that went to the GFCI in the bathroom and then on to the kitchen outlet.

Then there was a wire that went to a junction box. From that junction box where two wires, one served the non-GFCI outlets in front of the door and one serviced the non-GFCI outlets behind the door.

My breaker panel is at the drivers side rear corner of the coach in the same cabinet as the closet and closet drawers. When I pull all the drawers out over top of the breaker panel I found a junction box where the front and rear non-gfci wires met screwed to the rear wall in that space behind all the drawers.

Also of course there where three more wires with their own breakers, one each for; Front AC, Rear AC and Microwave.

My point is that you may have a junction box in a cabinet near your breaker panel that would be a common point for both of the problems that you describe.

[cfsoistman]

Originally Posted by jsutherl

Sounds like the same layout for wiring as my 2008. When I put in my inverter I added a sub panel and I had to figure out where all the romex went.

From the old breaker panel there was one wire that went to the GFCI in the bathroom and then on to the kitchen outlet.

Then there was a wire that went to a junction box. From that junction box where two wires, one served the non-GFCI outlets in front of the door and one serviced the non-GFCI outlets behind the door.

My breaker panel is at the drivers side rear corner of the coach in the same cabinet as the closet and closet drawers. When I pull all the drawers out over top of the breaker panel I found a junction box where the front and rear non-gfci wires met screwed to the rear wall in that space behind all the drawers.

Also of course there where three more wires with their own breakers, one each for; Front AC, Rear AC and Microwave.

My point is that you may have a junction box in a cabinet near your breaker panel that would be a common point for both of the problems that you describe.

My panel is in the hallway just outside of the powder room. I've pulled of doors and removed drawers, disassembled the bed but still can't find that box. I've emailed John Armstrong and hopefully he'll be able to shed some light on the location of that box or have someone contact me with some help. I've looked everywhere with a light and mirror in case it was just out of sight. Thanks for your help. I also added an Inverter as well and pulled the Front & Rear AC circuits and the microwave circuit from the electrical panel and installed them in a sub-panel. I've had no problems with any of those circuits.

[cfsoistman]

Well here's my report after numerous emails with John Armstrong and Dan Evans. Both have been supportive but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any wiring documentation of how wires were run and where the junction boxes are located. So I have literally torn my coach apart. Every cabinet with a back access panel has been disassembled and still can't find where that wire is tied in. My solution will be the same as the last time. I'm running a new 12/2 wire under the coach in wire loom and then up the post at windshield on the driver's side. I plan to put that circuit on it's own breaker since I have both the breaker and the space in the panel. I'll terminate the bad wire in a box. It's very frustrating and dissapointing to not be able to find the problem and fix it but after more than 20 hours of looking everywhere, disassembling everything I could find, and talking to myself, I feel it's time to wire it properly and move on. I have two weeks until my knee replacement surgery left and have too much to do, so the hunt is over! I will be getting rid of most of those garbage receptacles FR used as junction boxes for numerous feeds.

If any other 370 owners want to know what's behind any panels please ask. I can tell you and save you the aggrevation.

[lochsa]

You may want to check the access port under your water heater. Jojo from the "hot water tank mounting warning" post mentioned some mysterious electrical box hidden within the compartment.

[cfsoistman]

Originally Posted by lochsa

You may want to check the access port under your water heater. Jojo from the "hot water tank mounting warning" post mentioned some mysterious electrical box hidden within the compartment.

Thanks for the suggestion but that was one of the first things I looked for when I pulled the water heater to fix the support. No junction box just wires. The wires within the compartment are naturally the water heater circuit and the feed that goes over to the refrigerator after crossing from the driver's side only to pick up the refrigerator and then travels back over to the driver's side to connect the dinette receptacle in the slide. The circuit to washer / dryer set-up travels through there as well.

[cfsoistman]

behind the electrical panel

Unorganized chaos

Here's where it all begins.

A few shots of my nightmare. I tagged the wires as I figured out where they went.



More drawers and panel removed but no junction box.

[cfsoistman]

More pictures of all the fun I've been having!!

Glad it's aflat screen and that stud was the right length. I'll save it and hopefully will never need to use it again.

The wire with the red wirenut is the reason for all of this work and I still can't find it's other end after taking apart every connection in every junction box and junction receptacle I could find.

[jojo bamboo]

Boy, you have been having fun !!

[jsutherl]

Wow, you've been fighting the good fight. It's amazing to me that Forest River doesn't have records of where wires would be run for a particular model. Seems like that would be something you'd have to have to get through an electrical inspection. But maybe RV's don't have to be inspected.

I think I'll soon be doing what you're doing. Running some 12-2 underneath. When I installed the inverter I did two 10-3 UF runs for it. My water heater doesn't have an electric element so I think I'm going to add a hot-shot. I'll probably go with 12-3 UF since it'll be underneath where it might get wet.

I'm not sure what the rules are on romex getting wet, but I know that UF is pretty much water proof so I figured it'd be safe.

[VinceU]

[QUOTE=cfsoistman;193436]More pictures of all the fun I've been having!!

Attachment 13452 Glad it's aflat screen and that stud was the right length. I'll save it and hopefully will never need to use it again.

Attachment 13453 The wire with the red wirenut is the reason for all of this work and I still can't find it's other end after taking apart every connection in every junction box and junction receptacle I could find.

Try looking up "Electric wire tracer tool" sold for live and open circuits, maybe one of these can help.

[cfsoistman]

Well I finally found it. John Armstrong told me it's above the floor. There was only one place I hadn't opened because there was no access panel and it's a finished cabinet. Behind the hamper I cut a hole figuring I could patch it and it will never be seen. I was surprised to find the double paneled wall had an access cut on the inside but what I saw was just blank. What I found was really scary. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.











Too scary to think about the fact the gas tank filler tube runs through that same cavity. I caution everyone to take the time and look around your RV for any junction boxes and the back of the receptacles and check those connections. Someone could have gotten seriously hurt or worse. Insurance could replace the RV but your love ones can't be replaced. I'm working on the wiring diagram for the Georgetown 370TS and I promise to post it so at least if there's anyone it can help it will be here. I'm not sure if I'm mad about the lack of workmanship or the fact FR reps kept guessing where it might be.

[cfsoistman]

The last place left to look.

[ronhanson]

WoW! Time to check all mine

[Herk7769]

Wow.

If we have any Georgetown Lurkers on; this NEEDS to go back to the floor supervisor.

It also seems to have a whole lot of wires in that box. Is that legal?

[jsutherl]

Nice work cfsoistman. That is super scarey. Thank goodness it didn't catch fire for real. So scarey to see that black soot inside things when you open them.

[cfsoistman]

Sent all of this information to FR with the pictures the other day. Haven't heard a word from them.
The Master Electrician at the company I work pointed out immediately that the wires were never twisted together. They just put the wire side by side and put the wire nut on. They used the wire nut to make the connection between the wires. Eventually the load from the AC Unit turned the inside of the wire nut into a little hot wire like a toaster and fried the wires and melted the wire nut cover in the process.

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by cfsoistman

Sent all of this information to FR with the pictures the other day. Haven't heard a word from them.
The Master Electrician at the company I work pointed out immediately that the wires were never twisted together. They just put the wire side by side and put the wire nut on. They used the wire nut to make the connection between the wires. Eventually the load from the AC Unit turned the inside of the wire nut into a little hot wire like a toaster and fried the wires and melted the wire nut cover in the process.

I see a few possible NEC code violations, maybe why they arent answering. Wrong size box, too many cables for box used and most importantly rule calls for accessibility. This is pretty serious stuff. E-How quote below.....
I assume Indiana follows the Nat. Code?
Code Specifications

• The National Electrical Code requires that junction boxes must remain accessible, which means they cannot be covered with drywall or other wall covering material. The box opening must be covered with a coverplate that is screwed shut to protect the connection. The box must be deep enough to house the number of cables entering it. For example, a 4-inch by 4-inch square box that is 1-and-1/2-inches deep can accommodate the connections for up to 6 14-gauge NM cables or 5 12-gauge cables. If more cables must be connected in the box, use a box with a 2-and-1/8-inches depth.
  
  

Read more: Typical Electric Junction Box Wiring | eHow.com Typical Electric Junction Box Wiring | eHow.com

[jojo bamboo]

WOW who puts these motorhomes together?

[Hob]

Originally Posted by jojo bamboo

WOW who puts these motorhomes together?

Minimum wage Amish kids learning a trade. Not being a wise guy but that is how it goes in northern Indiana.

Best Regards,