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Old 04-10-2013, 09:32 PM   #61
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First define an anomaly to solve. Only then does a solution exist. Already provided were a short list of anomalies. And what may eliminate each.

Second, no 'better or worse' exists because an anomaly list is long. Relevant anomaly has not been defined.

Some anomalies were introduced. Others could be harmonics, noise, EMI/RFI, open safety ground, power factor, or frequency variation to name but a few.. Which one concerns you?

Scams are easily promoted when Dr Zacks magic elixir cures everything. No such magic box exists. Even direct lightning strikes are made irrelevant IF a threat is first identified and then an effective solution implemented. Which anomaly[ies] concerns you?
I think, the high or low voltage,from cg pedestal,and possibly the same from gen set,not much can do with lighting.
But I kinda heard it like it really might not help at all! Sorry confused. Is it potentially a waste of $? We did not ever have one "SP/ guard "on old tt,and had no problems for 4-5 yrs,or does that mean we are due? Guess its just, with all the things I may buy to try n prevent catastrophic damage,most defiantly is more $ than a ins. deductible.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:00 AM   #62
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I think, the high or low voltage,from cg pedestal,and possibly the same from gen set,not much can do with lighting.
First, your local telco has a $multi-million computer connected to wires all over town. May suffer about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days after every storm while they replace that computer? Never? Exactly. Because well proven solutions have existed for over 100 years to make damage from lightning irrelevant.

However, many spent big bucks on some products, suffered damage, then only assumed nothing can protect from lightning. Rather than learn that those products never claimed to do that protection. Learned of other, well proven, and less expensive solutions.

Second, high or low voltage? What is high and what is low - in numbers? Well, let's put numbers to some anomalies hoping that a still undefined anomaly is what you want to avert. BTW high voltages are completely different from lightning.

High voltages can increase to 150 or to something less than 240 volts due to failures such as an open or failing neutral. An anomaly that a Progressive (or equivalent device) claims to protect from. To disconnect from AC mains when that voltage rises too high.

What is at greatest risk? Motorized appliances (refrigerator, air conditioner). Utilities must keep 120 volts so regulated that your AC mains will not rise above 130 volts. To protect appliances at most risk - motorized appliances. Electronics tend to be more robust. In particular portable electronics whose normal voltage is anywhere from 85 to 265 VAC.

Is voltage going too high? Sometimes obvious by observing an incandescent bulb increasing light intensity. An incandescent bulb is a superb tool to identify this anomaly that is, unfortunately, too common in some campgrounds.

Power strip protectors remains inert - do nothing - until voltages rise above 330 volts. A number printed on each box. And an example of what is always required - the numbers. High voltage (maybe 150 or 220 volts) would be completely ignored by a power strip protector. A power strip and the Progressive are two completely different devices that, unfortunately, share a common name.

High voltage - only in that voltage range - is one anomaly.

Third, low voltage is how low? Low voltage can put motorized appliances at risk. So a utility must either regulate line voltage or disconnect power. Unfortunately, low voltage without disconnecting power may exist in some campgrounds.

A dimming incandescent bulb is an ideal tool for identifying that anomaly. The Progressive can avert low voltage (which is not a surge) by disconnecting. Do your bulbs at all campgrounds never dim? Then that anomaly is not a concern.

Some more expensive units can compensate for voltages (the second and third anomalies) by adjusting voltages by as much as 10% or 20%. Another solution to those campground anomalies.

Minor low voltage can be harmful to motorized appliances. That same voltage (ie when a bulb dims to 50% intensity) is ideal and sufficient voltage to all electronics. Electronics must work just fine even at that low voltage. Or simply shut off normally should voltage go even lower. Low voltage is never destructive to properly designed electronics.

How often do incandescent bulbs indicate high or low voltages? That suggests the need for a Progressive or equivalent.

Fourth, another discussed MOVs failing frequently when used to avert generator spikes (on a ship). A least expensive solution is to always spend a little more for the better generator that does not generate such spikes. Best solution is always inside the generator. That properly regulates voltages even when a major appliance (ie air conditioner) suddenly powers off. Due to superior design, Honda is one example.

MOVs are not designed for continuous and tiny spikes from something like a generator.

Meanwhile, all electronics (long before the IBM PC existed) were required to make such spikes irrelevant. But that sentence did not provide numbers. 120 volt electronics must not be harmed by spikes of up to 600 volts. A typical UPS can output spikes exceeding 250 volts when providing power from an internal battery. All electronics make typically 'dirty' power from a UPS irrelevant due to existing and internal protection.

All appliances contain significant protection. Your concern are rare anomalies that can overwhelm that protection. The Progressive is one solution for some anomalies such as high and low voltages; as defined by above numbers. Not discussed is protection from other typically problematic anomalies (ie lightning).
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:27 AM   #63
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Ok, so I need to look for a progressive,surge protector. Right?

Thanks!
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:38 AM   #64
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You might also want to look at my review of the Franks Autotransformer in the Product Review Section. While it may not handle every possible thing that can go wrong with your campground power, it will do just fine with the most commonly encountered issues.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:25 AM   #65
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You might also want to look at my review of the Franks Autotransformer in the Product Review Section. While it may not handle every possible thing that can go wrong with your campground power, it will do just fine with the most commonly encountered issues.
Thanks herk!
I will call today,and see if this is an affordable option. Looks like a very good choice. See .....you guys have been there done that! I would not think"until now" to check BEFORE I plug in! Wow Duh. When I first posted with FROG,I said "new to forrest river,but not new to camping." Well......I think I was lucky,to not have any real problems.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:48 AM   #66
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Westom,
in all this obfuscation, you've made one good point which is that a spike protector will be more effective when it's closest to a good ground (ie, the pedestal).

Unless you're prepared to build and sell units to solve the "anomalies" you talk about, I think it's best to stick to the problems that existing commercially available (to the RV industry) units solve. There are three kinds:
1) Spike suppression only (PI "SSP" units).
2) Spike suppression AND Everything else (PI "EMS" units, SurgeGuard units.)
3) Those that improve under-voltage protection using a "voltage boost" (as opposed to just turning off the power like the units in #2). These units also often provide the protections in #1 & #2. (They are Franks, TRCI Voltage Regulator, Hughes, and PowerMaster.)

To any who are confused, there are many good threads on this forum on the "surge protector" topic. You should do a search and read up.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:30 PM   #67
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Ok, so I need to look for a progressive,surge protector. Right?
Only you can make that decision. Again, because you observed incandescent bulbs changing intensity. An indication that utility voltages are changing. And therefore may also vary execessively.

An autotransformer was described earlier:
Quote:
Some more expensive units can compensate for voltages (the second and third anomalies) by adjusting voltages by as much as 10% or 20%.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:47 PM   #68
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Hey rolling wow lot going on in this thread..... Anyway I thought I would add this . I think this is a personal preffrence I have heard stories first hand from guys I work with one guy lost his plug at the pedestal one lost the wiring in his trailer they don't use protection never have ..my opinion is I paid a lot for my trailer and its my job to protect it when possible I would rather replace my 300 surge than my twenty thousand dollar trailer u need to decide what is right for u you need to be comfortable and only you good luck
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:19 PM   #69
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Hey rolling wow lot going on in this thread..... Anyway I thought I would add this . I think this is a personal preffrence I have heard stories first hand from guys I work with one guy lost his plug at the pedestal one lost the wiring in his trailer they don't use protection never have ..my opinion is I paid a lot for my trailer and its my job to protect it when possible I would rather replace my 300 surge than my twenty thousand dollar trailer u need to decide what is right for u you need to be comfortable and only you good luck
And what you say sums it up very well about whether to use a SP or not - it is a personal preference. There was an old advertising slogan that said " You can pay me now or you can pay me later" and I believe that is true here. A SP was one of the first things I brought after starting RV'ing and am comfortable knowing that I have a bit more protection against electrical malfunctions caused by external things than the guy who doesn't have one.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:25 PM   #70
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The only thing I will add is you could look at it this way as well... Do you let just anyone in your house to work on things inside or your car probably not at camp grounds we are at thier mercy that the pedestal is wired right or has not been fooled around with by anybody...... How comfortable are you now hooking up that expensive toy o.f yours
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