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Old 04-09-2013, 08:21 AM   #41
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Just curious. Why didn't you order the Progressive Industries unit? With a lifetime warranty and"Made in USA" it's usually an easy choice.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:56 AM   #42
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Let me throw a little food for thought out here. Hard wiring the suppressor has it's definite advantages: convenient and not likely to get stolen. BUT, when a surge suppressor has to swallow a surge larger than it can handle, such as a nearby lightning strike, bad things happen. The suppressor can explode and/or catch on fire. As for me, I would rather the conflagration is occuring out at the pedestal, rather than inside my camper. Again, just a little food for thought.

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Old 04-09-2013, 10:35 AM   #43
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I don't know. I've seen warnings that the MOV spike suppressors can "explode", which is why they have to be fused. All reasonable spike suppressors do have them fused. Do you have any links/documentation of RV spike suppressors blowing up? I'd like to read it.

If I drive by your campsite, will I see your converter, microwave, and TV sitting at the pedestal as well, 'cause they can certain explode with a very close lightening strike as well?
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:12 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by w4drr
Let me throw a little food for thought out here. Hard wiring the suppressor has it's definite advantages: convenient and not likely to get stolen. BUT, when a surge suppressor has to swallow a surge larger than it can handle, such as a nearby lightning strike, bad things happen. The suppressor can explode and/or catch on fire. As for me, I would rather the conflagration is occuring out at the pedestal, rather than inside my camper. Again, just a little food for thought.

Bob
I agree with you, have seen it happen, so does N.E.C. The authority of all elctric rules issued ( including Insurance companies). No one says don't use them, just keep them outside the space. Note the fixed units cannot carry UL label. Don't save your microwave and lose your rig. Fuses and breakers all carry a operating time to open, never fast enough to clear before a serious overload will cause a catastrophy. BTY its not just lightning will cause a failure, its rare but so's your RV.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:50 AM   #45
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Note the fixed units cannot carry UL label.
That is absolutely FALSE.

Both Progressive Industries and current SurgeGuard units are UL Listed.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:09 PM   #46
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Barry, I have read stories in the past of this happening, but cannot locate them now. A Google search turns up a lot of stuff on suppressors from companies trying to sell you one, and not much on their product failures. Anyway, I am sure an exploding suppressor would definitely be a very rare occurance, and what you say is true in that they are fused to disconnect the circuit if things get ugly. It is the first line of defense, and most likely will give it's life without any fireworks to protect all of the downstream electronics, so no, you won't find my stuff out by the pedestal. But in extreme cases, a high enough voltage surge will simply blow the fuses and continue to arc across the blown fuse, and then it is up to the MOV transorbs to short the surge to ground and/or neutral. The MOVs will appear as a short circuit, so they will continue to conduct until the surge passes or they simply vaporize. Once the MOVs vaporize, all bets are off what can happen next.
I don't know, maybe I am being a little overly paranoid about it, and there may not be much difference, from a safety standpoint, where the suppressor is located. But personally, I would still feel more comfortable if it were outside.

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Old 04-09-2013, 01:15 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by BarryD0706
That is absolutely FALSE.

Both Progressive Industries and current SurgeGuard units are UL Listed.
Sorry Barry, thought I was quoting the Mfg, maybe it ws Franks, and NEC.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:21 PM   #48
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My Progressive Industries surge protector failed on our last camping trip. No explosion, didn't even see any of the magic smoke escape, but I sure wouldn't have been a happy camper if I had to remove a hard wired unit while at the camp site. If I went hard wired, I would certainly make sure I had everything with me if I needed to return it to stock if the protector fails.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:36 PM   #49
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Let me throw a little food for thought out here. Hard wiring the suppressor has it's definite advantages: convenient and not likely to get stolen. BUT, when a surge suppressor has to swallow a surge larger than it can handle, such as a nearby lightning strike, bad things happen. The suppressor can explode and/or catch on fire. As for me, I would rather the conflagration is occuring out at the pedestal, rather than inside my camper. Again, just a little food for thought.

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X2...I chose to give up convenience and have our SurgeGuard hanging at the pedestal



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Old 04-09-2013, 01:46 PM   #50
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X3 would rather have the problem outside instead of inside
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:48 PM   #51
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My Progressive Industries surge protector failed on our last camping trip. No explosion, didn't even see any of the magic smoke escape, but I sure wouldn't have been a happy camper if I had to remove a hard wired unit while at the camp site. If I went hard wired, I would certainly make sure I had everything with me if I needed to return it to stock if the protector fails.
Did Progressive replace your unit under warranty?
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:42 PM   #52
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Barry, I have read stories in the past of this happening, but cannot locate them now. A Google search turns up a lot of stuff on suppressors from companies trying to sell you one, and not much on their product failures. Anyway, I am sure an exploding suppressor would definitely be a very rare occurance, and what you say is true in that they are fused to disconnect the circuit if things get ugly. It is the first line of defense, and most likely will give it's life without any fireworks to protect all of the downstream electronics, so no, you won't find my stuff out by the pedestal. But in extreme cases, a high enough voltage surge will simply blow the fuses and continue to arc across the blown fuse, and then it is up to the MOV transorbs to short the surge to ground and/or neutral. The MOVs will appear as a short circuit, so they will continue to conduct until the surge passes or they simply vaporize. Once the MOVs vaporize, all bets are off what can happen next.
I don't know, maybe I am being a little overly paranoid about it, and there may not be much difference, from a safety standpoint, where the suppressor is located. But personally, I would still feel more comfortable if it were outside.

Bob
Just to bore you for a minute, we used these suppressors in the1980's to protect electronics on ships. The most vurnerable was high powered radars. The boxes were connected across the 440 volt supply and normally were uneventfuul. They would fail on occassion (short out) and would need changing. I took a failed unit home to check it out. They were insalled because the shipboard generators would spike slightly during major load change.

The box was an all welded constuction with closing joint of flash weld rivets. "No user serviceable parts inside".
Cut and pealed the lid off and found a pour of hard epoxy with lumps! Hammer and chisel for a couple hours over a few day I found t MOVs,, caps, resistors etc. The lumps were granite gravel and with the epoxy formed a formidable barrier, why? Could it be the parts inside valued maybe $30 from Newark electronics. We paid over $400 per box. I guess they were protecting the design. The project sorta died on the vine.
Been there, done that I just remain skeptical. And if lightnig sticks its feeder all bets would be off, it would be a smoking box along with most devices downstream. Isn't the cause of most microwave and TV failures 220 volts in a 3 prong 110 V circuit?
My entire career was troubleshoot and repair of floating cities, major size ships. I just saw on the forum, another unexplained failure, it was a PD. Not sayin don't use them, but just be aware of the possibilities. A major power fault could cause it to burn, about a likely as a direct lightning strike. If you want another idea there's lots on this thread today.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:52 PM   #53
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Did Progressive replace your unit under warranty?
Yes, great service. They asked me a couple questions about what happened and had me send it in. I had the new (refurbished) one about 2 weeks later.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:56 PM   #54
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I use the PI 50amp portable and am very pleased with it. So far, I have not had an issue and if I do, I would prefer it happen at the pedestal and not in my coach. I have been using this unit for over a year and have zero problems.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:00 AM   #55
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Too many assume anything called a surge protector is the same thing. Two completely different devices with the same name are being discussed.

The Progressive unit protects from anomalies typically found in campgrounds such as polarity reversals, excessive voltage, brownout, etc. All these anomalies are completely ignored by another device (also called a protector) that contains MOVs.

What happens when 120 volts rises to 160 volts? The second type protector does nothing. The first disconnects power.

What happens when lightning occurs? The first type protector does nothing. The second harmlessly earths that IF located to make a short (within feet) connection to a pedestal's earth ground.

Protectors using MOVs are not designed for transients (ie from a generator) that are frequent. Those anomalies are made irrelevant by what is already inside electronics. MOVs are intended for a rare transient that typically occurs maybe once every seven years. And that is otherwise so destructive.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:39 AM   #56
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Too many assume anything called a surge protector is the same thing. Two completely different devices with the same name are being discussed.

The Progressive unit protects from anomalies typically found in campgrounds such as polarity reversals, excessive voltage, brownout, etc. All these anomalies are completely ignored by another device (also called a protector) that contains MOVs.

What happens when 120 volts rises to 160 volts? The second type protector does nothing. The first disconnects power.

What happens when lightning occurs? The first type protector does nothing. The second harmlessly earths that IF located to make a short (within feet) connection to a pedestal's earth ground.

Protectors using MOVs are not designed for transients (ie from a generator) that are frequent. Those anomalies are made irrelevant by what is already inside electronics. MOVs are intended for a rare transient that typically occurs maybe once every seven years. And that is otherwise so destructive.
Progressive and SurgeGuard have both types of protection. They both have MOV transient protection as well as under/over voltage lockout. They also have things like open neutral and reverse polarity protection.

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Old 04-10-2013, 07:20 PM   #57
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They both have MOV transient protection as well as under/over voltage lockout.
Irrelevant if it contains MOVs. Facilities that cannot have damage may have no MOVs (protectors. But always have what does the protection. Earth ground. Best protector is a hardwire from each incoming conductor to earth. MOVs (or equivalent) are only used when a conductor cannot connect directly to earth (ie AC hot conductor).

To do that type of protection means a Progressive must be within feet of the pedestal's earth ground. And many times more distant from appliances. Distance to earth and separation from appliances is also significant.

MOVs do not do protection. Just like that hardwire, an MOV is effective when making a low impedance (as short as possible) connection to what does protection. Earth ground.

Best is a connection using a hardwire. MOVs replace that hardwire only when an incoming conductor cannot be earthed directly (ie AC hot conductor).

Progressive addresses other anomalies such as open neutral, reverse polarity, brownouts, overvoltage, etc. These are not surges. But, for advertising purposes, any device for any anomaly (even a blackout - zero volts) is often called a surge protector.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:35 PM   #58
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Irrelevant if it contains MOVs. Facilities that cannot have damage may have no MOVs (protectors. But always have what does the protection. Earth ground. Best protector is a hardwire from each incoming conductor to earth. MOVs (or equivalent) are only used when a conductor cannot connect directly to earth (ie AC hot conductor).

To do that type of protection means a Progressive must be within feet of the pedestal's earth ground. And many times more distant from appliances. Distance to earth and separation from appliances is also significant.

MOVs do not do protection. Just like that hardwire, an MOV is effective when making a low impedance (as short as possible) connection to what does protection. Earth ground.

Best is a connection using a hardwire. MOVs replace that hardwire only when an incoming conductor cannot be earthed directly (ie AC hot conductor).

Progressive addresses other anomalies such as open neutral, reverse polarity, brownouts, overvoltage, etc. These are not surges. But, for advertising purposes, any device for any anomaly (even a blackout - zero volts) is often called a surge protector.
Wow! Ok in dumb old carpenter,terms are you sayn hardware in coach is better or worse? Have a hard wire,wat'n in box,to install this wknd. I figured it was safer from,walking away,and one n done. Confused?
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:56 PM   #59
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Hard wired is the way to go.
Until you trade in... I find it easier just to use the dogbone style. I guess each have their own pro's and con's.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:21 PM   #60
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Ok in dumb old carpenter,terms are you sayn hardware in coach is better or worse?
First define an anomaly to solve. Only then does a solution exist. Already provided were a short list of anomalies. And what may eliminate each.

Second, no 'better or worse' exists because an anomaly list is long. Relevant anomaly has not been defined.

Some anomalies were introduced. Others could be harmonics, noise, EMI/RFI, open safety ground, power factor, or frequency variation to name but a few.. Which one concerns you?

Scams are easily promoted when Dr Zacks magic elixir cures everything. No such magic box exists. Even direct lightning strikes are made irrelevant IF a threat is first identified and then an effective solution implemented. Which anomaly[ies] concerns you?
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