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Old 09-13-2016, 08:00 AM   #1
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Battery wiring Schematics NEEDED - 2017 MBS 2400WS - BAD CELL in one Battery

We finally had our first weekend of dry camping so I don't have a clue whether one of the cabin batteries has had a bad cell since day one or not, but it has one now and I need a wiring diagram so I don't short anything out attempting to remove and replace It.

I would have never thought to check so see If I had a battery problem if the following scenario had not occured. I fly R/C aircraft and this past weekend we attended a weekend long Float Fly event, arriving on Friday evening and leaving Sunday afternoon in which a parking lot was used as our camping area, The weather here in Michigan has started to cool down so about 3 AM Sunday morning to a trailer temperature of about 60 degrees and decided to run the furnace to warm it up a bit.

About five minutes into the furnace running, the Carbon Monoxide detector went into alarm or so I thought. Not only was the alarm beeping, but it was also producing an alternating red/green flashing light. According to the labeling, this is an indication for one of two things, "LOW BATTERY" or "END OF SERVICE DATE FOR DETECTOR".

Needless to say, I shut down the furnace, opened the windows and doors, allowing fresh air enter until the alarm finally shut down. We didn't have headaches and felt fine so we went back to bed in a cold motorhome.

The next morning, I decided to see if the Carbon Monoxide Detector had indeed gone into alarm due to low voltage instead of an actual carbon monoxide issue so I started the generator first and then the furnace, the water pump, and put the hot water heater on electric and ran everything for about a half hour. NO alarms, so the previous evenings issue had to be a low voltage warning.

Finally yesterday afternoon I got around to checking the water level in the batteries when I couldn't see water in one cell. Since I didn't have any distilled water around, I texted the wife and asked her to pick up a gallon on her way home from work. Once I got the distilled water, I attempted to fill the dry cell, but when I put water in, water started dripping out the bottom of the battery holder, OUCH, hole or crack. This is when I noticed white powder all over the bottom of the battery can.

I would hope the six month old battery is covered under warranty but that will be a separate issue seeing as the Generic Class C Motorhome Owner's Manual states the batteries are produced by U.S.Batteries and we are to deal with the Battery manufacturer when it comes to battery warranty but our batteries appear to be produced by EXIDE. nice EH

Our Sunseeker seems to have a pair of u-branded Exide Nautilus Dual Purpose Marine Batteries installed according to the UPC number on the attached sticker. The irony of the whole Exide issue is their site doesn't even list the battery and it appears to be a BJ's Wholesale Club exclusive, GO FIGURE.
WHO DO WE DEAL WITH WHEN IT COMES TO THE WARRANTY or are we out on a limb for the cost of a new one our self?

I am a retired electrician, good at creating my own wiring diagrams and capable of safely working on hot circuits but I don't have a clue as to how this motorhome's battery system is wired.

In the picture below the left battery is the one with the dead cell, Notice the two devices behind the batteries and how they are TWO DIFFERENT BRANDS of what appear to be either fuse links or circuit breakers. Speaks wonders for Forest River quality control and lack of pride by their workers when they can't even install the same brand of safety device alongside each other. UNLESS OF COURSE there is a reason for the two different brands BUT without any DOCUMENTATION or SCHEMATICS that is impossible to tell

Anyway back to the subject.
Does anyone have a clue as to how these batteries are wired other than the fact that they are in parallel? The left battery module says"ignition protected" on it and has what appears to be a #4 wire attached that leaves the battery box. The right hand module looks like it is just an 80 amp fuse holder/link and has what appears to be a #2 wire attached that leaves the battery box. Unfortunately once they leave the battery box they are IMPOSSIBLE to follow due to the wire loom and ALL THE GREY FOAM that covers that area.

HELP, I NEED WIRING SCHEMATICS.

Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide,

ShermanD
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:03 AM   #2
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You won't get schematics from the factory, but what you have is pretty much standard in RVs. The two circuit protection devices are also common. One goes to your BCC and from there the main power distribution panel and the other goes to either your generator or jacks or something that is too big for the power panel. I would guess the generator.

Either way, replace the battery with a new 12 volt deep cycle unit and put it all back to where it was. When you disconnect the battery from the fuses you can put a meter on the feeds. The BCC and panel will be at 13.3 or more if your converter is running, the other will be at "0".
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:21 AM   #3
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If all you are wanting to do is replace the defective battery, just take detailed photos and/or mark the cables with a marker and some numbers. Put them back by following the photos. You won't find anyone who will provide schematics at the factory.

Check to be sure there isn't a screw head sticking up in the bottom of the battery box that rubbed a hole in the bottom of the battery. I've seen that more than once.
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:17 AM   #4
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Thanks for the info. Seeing as the Sunseeker is only 6 months old, I have contacted Brian Meeks at Forest River to see about a warranty on the battery. It seems as though "World Battery" ( I think) provides Forest River with the batteries and used to just provide reimbursment for a defective one BUT it seems as though they have changed their policy and he is trying to find out what the new policy is. He said he would call back as soon as he found out the new policy.

Like I sated before, The UPC number on the battery references a Exide Nautilus 27MDP Marine Battery, unfortunately for me the battery has no other identifying marks on it other than the UPC label, therefore EXide will not honor any type of warranty period. Another interesting tidbit is the fact that one site states that the battery is capable of 700 CCA while another states 525 CCA so obviously as usual, Forest River purchased and installed the cheapest product possible and the policy change is probably indicative of the Battery supplier providing inferior batteries to them.

the Local Batteries + Bulbs has a 90AH Duracell Ultra Deep Cycle Marine & RV Battery for about $100 with a 12 month free replacement that I will most likely end up getting. Hopefully I can reach a compromise with Forest River so they pick up the tab if the battery supplier fails to come through honoring their warranty.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:55 PM   #5
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Batteries paraell

If batteries are in parallel and one cell is bad the bad batterie drains the good one and sometimes the bad one appears to be good and the good one appears to be bad. Separate them and charge them individually and then check them out. If you get new batteries I recommend getting both of the same brand and size.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:58 PM   #6
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I also would mention that if furnace has not been run for awile the co dector can go off when the dust burns off. Don't ask me how I know this.
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Old 09-13-2016, 08:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorSnrub View Post
If batteries are in parallel and one cell is bad the bad batterie drains the good one and sometimes the bad one appears to be good and the good one appears to be bad. Separate them and charge them individually and then check them out. If you get new batteries I recommend getting both of the same brand and size.
I didn't get a call back from Forest River so i will call again in the morning to see what the verdict is on a warranty issue. I didn't get around to disconnecting the bad battery today, but will tomorrow and just run on one battery till I either get a warranty replacement or a new one.

I may be wrong but I figure the one battery is open circuit. One cell is completely dry and either has a hole or crack in the bottom. I put water in and it comes flowing out. If it is indeed an open circuit, it will act just like a burned out light bulb and do nothing and cause no problems.

Budget constraints will keep me from purchasing two new batteries this late in the season, I still need to acquire a cover good enough to handle Michigan winters, so I will just purchase one this year and then next spring replace both with some real good higher capacity ones with more than a one year guarantee.

Thanks for the info, Sherman
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:22 PM   #8
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World Batteries warranty policy

I got a call back from Forest River this afternoon on how to handle the defective battery.

I take it to a local auto parts store, have it load tested, and get them to write a report as to its condition.

I then email that report to Forest River who then forwards it to World Battery along with some other paperwork.

Once World Battery has documentation that the battery is indeed defective, they send me a $60 check.

Yes fellow Forest River owners. Your batteries DO NOT have a one year manufactures replacement warranty. If they become defective within the first year, you get $60 after you provide the proper documentation and not a penny more

Tomorrow I will pull the batteries and take them up to the local auto parts store and have them both load tested. Then I will go by Sams Club and buy a Duracell® Marine Battery - Group Size 27 to get me through the remainder of this seasons RV'ing. I will shop for a pair of matching batteries next spring.
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Old 09-16-2016, 06:36 PM   #9
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In the MBS forum I believe there is a post about using group 31agm batteries instead of group 27 batteries. You'll get more AH and they fit in the battery box (snugly).

I myself did this but the batteries I bought (Sam's Club) were garbage. I returned them and had to exchange them for group 27's - or lose my core charge credits. Next time I replace I'll go back to the group31 but not from Sams.
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Old 09-16-2016, 07:34 PM   #10
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Battery damaged prior to initial installation- Shoddy wiring installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by flocktothewall View Post
In the MBS forum I believe there is a post about using group 31agm batteries instead of group 27 batteries. You'll get more AH and they fit in the battery box (snugly).

I myself did this but the batteries I bought (Sam's Club) were garbage. I returned them and had to exchange them for group 27's - or lose my core charge credits. Next time I replace I'll go back to the group31 but not from Sams.
I am still in the process of finding a place to give me a write up that the battery is indeed bad. In the mean time I got lucky and found a new EXIDE 27MDP. Believe it or not my local Home Depot now has an automotive section and they carry the Exide Marine Batteries for $65 plus a $12 core charge that is refundable by returning the old core. They also carry the EXIDE 31MDP for $100. The 27MDP is a 100 AH battery while the 31 MDP is a 125 AH battery. Yes they will fit but snugly. I suppose if I were into boondocking, I would consider adding the additional 12 pounds worth of batteries for the extra 50 AH they would give me but we have a generator that will charge the batteries If we dry camp longer than a couple days.

As far as the AGM batteries go. I am no expert by any means, BUT, from what I have read on other threads, the AGM Batteries are NOT a deep cycle battery and therefore inferior when it comes to using them as storage batteries for long term low amperage usage.

Make sure you take the time to research the difference between the two battery types, I am sure there are many threads on this site that discuss the pros and cons of each type.

Sherman

BTW, It is my opinion that the battery in question was BAD when installed by the Forest River employees. There is a hole in the bottom of the battery that allowed the acid from one cell to leak out and there was no debris under the battery that could have caused the hole. The battery had been leaking acid for such a long time that it actually etched away some of the battery case metal directly under the hole.

The first two pictures show the dry cell and the hole in the battery.

I added the third picture because I wanted fellow owners to check their battery connections. Specifically the two wires that are attached to top of the fuses block/circuitbreakers mounted on the wall above the batteries.

On my motorhome, the left red wire was only making a partial connection due to half of the wire terminal being covered with shrink tube. Whoever installed the shrink tube forgot to cut the excess off of the terminal blade. due to this only half of the blade actually contacted the connection surface.

The right red wire was mounted facing the wrong direction. The fuse holder had a divider on the left side of the terminal that sticks out almost 1/4". due to this the wire terminal was sticking out on an angle instead of being flat against the contact surface so I was actually lucky that, I didn't use the battery power to the extent that the connection would have overheated due to the lack of contact surface area. The wire itself needs to come in from the right so that it will sit flat on the contact area.
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