E450 Driveshaft Problem Fixed On The Road

[RamblerGuy]

This is a long discussion, so I’ve started with a summary and followed with details for the FROG gearheads.

During our last trip in our 2011 Sunseeker 3100, while driving 65 mph down an interstate, we heard a “whap” on the underside of the coach’s floor and immediately felt a vibration. At a truck stop at the next exit I found a balance weight had come off the center section of driveshaft. I bought a few screw-type hose clamps and put them on the driveshaft with the screw heads where the weight had been. This balanced the driveshaft well enough to drive the remaining 1500 miles home. At home, I contacted our friend at Forest River, Brian Clemens, who helped by telling me that they add the front section when they stretch the wheelbase and then rebalance the three sections together. I removed the driveshafts and had them rebalanced.

The attached photos show the driveshaft and illustrate that this could have been more than an inconvenience. The weight could have just as easily hit the brake tubing or a gas line.

Now the details for the benefit of the FROG gearheads:
First of all, although this is about a problem with a Ford chassis, it could happen to any vehicle, so consider adding a few large hose clamps to your kit of parts just in case.

When we heard the noise and the vibration started, I immediately suspected the driveshaft because the frequency was too high to be a tire. I pulled off on the shoulder to try to find the problem and the vibration increased a lot at about 45 mph, then decreased below that speed. This harmonic pretty much confirmed it wasn’t a tire problem. At the truck stop we thoroughly checked the tires anyway and found no problem. I had to move the motorhome a little bit twice before the driveshafts rotated to where I could see where the weight was missing. As luck would have it, there was a Ford dealer next door. The service manager told us that a driveshaft shop was about 25 miles up the interstate in the direction we were going.

Knowing that we could have a delay of most of a day, or more, at the driveshaft shop, we decided to try the hose clamp fix. If it didn’t work, nothing was lost. We first tried two hose clamps directly over the spot where the weight had been. To our surprise, the vibration was almost gone! At the next exit, we added a third clamp. This made the vibration worse. At the next exit, we moved two of the clamps away from the center point and that was good enough to get us home.

Here are some tips for the gearheads. The driveshaft shop needs the center bearings and their clamps to balance the assembly, so be sure to take the clamps with you. To remove the driveshaft yokes from the transmission and rear axle, you need a 12-point 12mm socket. I don’t have a Ford shop manual, so I looked up the torque for the bolt strength marking and size. The chart said about 80 ft-lbs, but it sure took more than that to get them off. The bolts on the straps holding the FR-supplied u-joint caps in place are 8mm. They are high strength and were torqued to about 25 ft-lbs, so I used a 6-point socket, but you can reach them with a box end. The center bearing bolts are 9/16-inch, grade 5, torqued to 55 ft-lbs.

The section that lost the balance weight was original equipment by Ford. Since the chassis is still within the Ford warranty duration, I checked the warranty book and confirmed that it is covered. Before Brian informed me that they rebalance it the assembly, thereby absolving Ford of coverage, I had talked with the local Ford service manager. He said they don’t work on motorhomes – they lost too much money doing it. (Understandably – Class A engine work has to be tough.) He gave me the Ford Motorhome Assistance number, 800-444-3311, and they said take it to a dealer about 75 miles away. I vetoed that idea, and offered to remove it myself and have it rebalanced if they would pay for it. They agreed but said a Ford dealer had to confirm the need and submit a claim. I called the local Ford shop manager who agreed to do that. In the end, I didn’t pursue it with Ford since I later found out that FR had rebalanced it. It is still good information to have the warranty assist number on hand, and to know that not all Ford dealers will work on motorhomes.

By the way, while at the dealership where we bought our RV, I mentioned this to the owner. He said he just got a Lexington on the Ford chassis in trade which had also lost a driveshaft balance weight!

In summary, here are the good things that came out of this incident:

1. The balance weight did not hit a gas or brake line.
2. We were on an interstate and had a paved shoulder so we could immediately pull off to determine if there was a major problem.
3. We could drive to the next exit to figure out the problem in a safer location.
4. There was a truck stop at that exit with plenty of paved area where we could check it out.
5. FR shot a little paint over the weights they added, so after moving the RV a few times to be able to see all sides of the driveshafts, it was obvious that a weight was missing.
6. We fairly quickly determined the problem and were able to easily fix it.
7. We got information on a driveshaft shop that was within a reasonable distance and got the parts we needed at the Ford shop next door.
8. The weather was sunny and a nice temperature.
9. The entire power train, including the engine, transmission, and rear axle, are still under warranty.
10. The cost for rebalancing was $100, so not being covered by a warranty wasn’t a disaster.
11. Since the motorhome was in my driveway for over a week, I had time to catch up on all those little non-essential repair items I had been putting off.
12. Last, but not least, Brian Clemens was helpful in getting me the information from the chassis engineers that FR does balance the entire assembly. That told me I had to take all three sections to be balanced, and saved me the hassle of a losing argument with Ford over a warranty claim.

The bad things:

1. The driveshaft assembly was not covered by Ford’s warranty as noted above, and not by Forest River’s warranty, which is now long expired.
2. Warranty repairs for items such as the transmission could be a hassle.

[KQ2N]

Great detailed post, thank you! Putting a couple clamps into the tool box asap!

[Sun.ranger]

I understood the entire power train was covered by Ford. Are you certain that this is not covered? Do you need a specialized shop to be able to balance the whole assembly? I'm assuming the weight of the hose clamp was supplementing for the missing weight correct?

[RamblerGuy]

The center and rear driveshaft sections were furnished by Ford with the original 158 inch wheelbase. Forest River added the front section when they increased the wheelbase, in our coach, to 220 inches. They rebalanced the three sections of driveshafts together, thereby voiding the Ford warranty on those pieces. Forest River would have to cover the balancing, but the 12 month FR warranty had long expired.

No other parts covered by the Ford warranty would be affected.

[RamblerGuy]

Yes a driveline shop has to rebalance the three sections together. This is usually associated with an industrial drive business. The shop I used does work for industrial and mobile equipment.

[Sun.ranger]

My understanding is that forest river has only be extending the rear of the motor home (i.e. adding 4-5 feet extension) that does not impact the driver train.

[RamblerGuy]

Originally Posted by chad.wiseman

My understanding is that forest river has only be extending the rear of the motor home (i.e. adding 4-5 feet extension) that does not impact the driver train.

Forest River does extend the wheelbase of most models. The Ford chassis sales brochure shows 158 and 176 inch wheelbases are available from the factory with the gross weights used for the Class C's. If you look at the Sunseeker, Forester, or Lexington brochures you'll see that most models have wheelbases other than the Ford standard ones. If you look at the Ford factory sticker on the driver's door jam it shows the original wheelbase.

[bclemens]

"1. The driveshaft assembly was not covered by Ford’s warranty as noted above."

I'm not sure this is an accurate statement since you never pursued it. Yes, we rebalance the whole thing...but who's to say that was our weight and not Ford's? (very well could have been ours). Point being, I think if someone has this they should try and claim it unless told otherwise by Ford.

[RamblerGuy]

Originally Posted by bclemens

"1. The driveshaft assembly was not covered by Ford’s warranty as noted above."

I'm not sure this is an accurate statement since you never pursued it. Yes, we rebalance the whole thing...but who's to say that was our weight and not Ford's? (very well could have been ours). Point being, I think if someone has this they should try and claim it unless told otherwise by Ford.

Mr. Clemens,

You are forcing me to embarrass myself. You see, I had to have the driveshafts balanced twice.

The first time I took them off I could not get the bolts on the front section off, even with my impact wrench. I already had the other sections off so the rear axle was not holding against the unbolting torque. I did not want to put too much force on the transmission park mechanism. The two original sections were prominently marked that they balanced together and I figured (incorrectly) that Forest River had balanced their section by itself, so I just left the front section in place.

When I got the two sections from the shop I immediately saw I was wrong. The balancing shop had added a weight almost 180 degrees from where the weight was missing. That told me that the missing weight was added by Forest River and without the front section's imbalance in the setup the shop had to add the weight to get the two Ford sections back into balance. Otherwise, they would have added a weight near the place where the missing weight had been.
You can see in the attached photo the clean spot where the Forest River weight was and a similar weight beside it. Not easily seen in the photo is the shot of paint that was applied to the two similar weights. Around the tube near the concrete, you can see the larger weight that the shop added. This is why I believe the two similar weights were added by Forest River.

I then took all three sections to the shop. They made no changes that I saw to the Ford sections but added some weights to the Forest River section. It now runs smoothly.

Since I concluded that Forest River had added weights to the Ford assembly I would not pursue a warranty claim with them, even though there was the possibility that they would not have figured out that their assembly had been rebalanced by someone else.

Would you have tried to get it past them? Had a u-joint or center bearing failed, or had a tube section or yoke broken, that would have been a different situation.

[bclemens]

I wouldn't have been smart enough to figure all that out. So yes, I would have taken it into Ford, none the wiser. The drive shaft is an area, thankfully, I never have to delve in to.

[RamblerGuy]

Unfortunately I was not smart enough to find out in the beginning that the three sections had to be balanced together.