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Old 05-04-2013, 11:18 PM   #21
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Adding stuff costs extra for materials and labor which translates into higher final prices to maintain profit margin. Warren Buffett recently bought FR expecting certain profits so they have to balance any extra costs with anticipated sales.

Agreed most buyers are not like us on this forum. They just take it to dealers for maintenance or issues. Also an example if there is no antifreeze inlet tube at the pump or it is hard to do then the customer is more likely to take it to a dealer for winterizing than messing with it. That makes the dealers happy so there is one example not to make the unit easy for the customer to work on themselves. I believe we who do our own work are in the vast minority.
Besides if the factory did everything and made everything perfect what would we have to do or talk about here!!
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:40 PM   #22
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1. We sort of do this "power users group" already...at least for Class C's. Which creates its own problem...no one comes to a consensus. Everyone seems to do things a different way. I meet every year with users and service techs from multiple locations...Even the service guys don't always agree. I have been doing this "power meeting" since 2006 and it has certainly helped. We will continue to do it. In fact I already have another list of proposals for this year...it just takes time to implement them. Especially when we're designing new floor plans or tweaking a whole model. Very time consuming.

2. A note to something mentioned further up, I did start a thread asking for user input. Ideas etc. Seems I get more in other threads than there...which is just fine. We tend to think of stuff as we're discussing a specific topic.

We take a ton of input...but we have learned to be a little cautious before jumping on every suggestion. (even if it seems like a great idea). We had a floor plan that everyone complained about how the dinette was built. So we finally built the dinette the new way that everyone was asking for...wouldn't you know it, the first unit that went out with the "new and improved dinette" was hated by the customer that had ordered it. We had to build them a new unit, the old way.

I appreciate all the feedback. Trust me, your voice is being heard. I copy and paste (almost daily) either a good idea, or concern to my fellow salespeople & designers. I consider this to be a very valuable resource.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:39 AM   #23
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I have always believed that "Cost is ONLY an issue in the absence of value". Think about it.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:45 PM   #24
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Bob,


I believe that if the meetings had good facilitation you could come to consensus or at least understanding. That requires everyone have the chance to present their case and then good dialogue on the pluses and minuses of each idea.

It can work. The facilitator must have some technical knowledge to ferret out the best ideas.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:41 AM   #25
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Just to clarify an earlier statement, I am not recommending that you order a "winterizing take up tube", simply saying if you have to have it, ask your dealer for it. They can install it or possibly order it. I probably should have clarified that, since the last thing we want is a rush to change existing orders, or factory order a unit when it is as simple as adding a 3 way valve and plastic tube.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:20 AM   #26
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Quote:
The engineers should all spend a month living\working out of these units. I bet there would be a lotta design changes.
Not only the engineer but his whole family. If he had to listen to his wife complain about the poor kitchen design he would try to make user friendly unit. You can make changes to a unit with out compromising space and cost. In our TT the shut off for the water heater are facing the wrong way (at back of hose). Our fresh water tank is in the cabinets below the kitchen sink. If the tank needs to be removed I have to remove all the lower cabinets first. I do believe that a lot of the problems are caused by workers who do not take pride in their work (valves on backwards, screws not hitting a stud and popping, doors not hung square etc.).
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:38 AM   #27
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I would agree that the engineers and anyone associated with designing/building/selling the products should spend time in them.

The Musco Lighting company requires this. I was visiting with them about lights for our ball complex. They let me know that everyone in the office and manufacturing is required to go on an installation job. They will even send teams out to help smaller non-profits like we were. By doing that it gives the Musco employees and idea of what putting up the lights takes and ideas on how to do it better.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:24 AM   #28
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Ok I have two thoughts on this:

Firstly - Kudos to bclemens!!!
You are going above and beyond by being here!

Secondly- Everyone should remember what we are doing in these units. We are camping! Remember your early days of camping in a borrowed tent and sleeping on the ground in a sleeping bag.
Everything above that is a luxury!
It reminds me of Louis CK's standup skit on "Cell Phones and Flying" - see link (caution language)

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Old 05-09-2013, 12:51 PM   #29
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bclemens--to clarify

Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
Just to clarify an earlier statement, I am not recommending that you order a "winterizing take up tube", simply saying if you have to have it, ask your dealer for it. They can install it or possibly order it. I probably should have clarified that, since the last thing we want is a rush to change existing orders, or factory order a unit when it is as simple as adding a 3 way valve and plastic tube.
To bclemens: If you go back to my original post, you will note that I said I could not install a tee, a three way valve, if you wish. The plastic pipe is too rigid and I cannot get a tee to line up straight to thread it in. The lines would have to be reworked and it is nearly impossible to access them. I have a "take up tube" which I purchased if that is what you mean by a tube which I attach to the inlet side of the pump for winterization. My point is that a tee installed when the unit is built sure would make sense. Also, regarding your comment on the electronic module placement, it could be in the closet with a plastic cover on it to protect it. The main point I was making here is that it is installed on the floor with water lines and fittings directly on top of it. That simply can't be justified. Anyway, thanks for listening as always, much appreciated.
Lou
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:57 PM   #30
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The OBD reader - a really really good thought. We have a 2013 2690SF - Ford 450 chassis. The handbook states that all sorts of interesting things would be announced such as "miles to fuel out", "next service due", etc,... a long list, some of which are listed "if equipped", but most not. Yet none seem to function on my vehicle other than a light that lights when fuel gets low. There is at the base of the dash, though, a 'maintenance' plug in which provides all this information to a properly configured reader. I have friends with Winnies who have bought an after market reader that uses the same source on their RVs to provide performance data; maybe there is such a gadget for the Sunseeker vintage base chassis
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