Help Design the next Sunseeker...

[bclemens]

Well at least the new ones do. If it has the 7" touch screen, it will be bluetooth capable.

[davegood]

On Class C's (I have 2300), increase overcab bunk weight capacity to hold two ADULTS (400 lbs).

Easily removable dinette table (expandable table pulling out from under window, possibly with leaf to extend to full length of dinette seats).

Change location of thermostat from refrigerator wall (this may already have been done)

5" sewer compartment port.

12 volt outlet in power compartment (could replace phone socket).

Radio operates on coach rather than van power (may already have been done).

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by davegood

On Class C's (I have 2300), increase overcab bunk weight capacity to hold two ADULTS (400 lbs).

Easily removable dinette table (expandable table pulling out from under window, possibly with leaf to extend to full length of dinette seats). Do you have U-shape or regular booth. U-shape is pretty easy to remove

Change location of thermostat from refrigerator wall (this may already have been done)

5" sewer compartment port. In process

12 volt outlet in power compartment (could replace phone socket). What power compartment? Where the converter is?

Radio operates on coach rather than van power (may already have been done) Done.

bc

[davegood]

Originally Posted by bclemens

bc

We have standard dinette, removed it, screwed in a cup holder under the window, and use snack table(s) as needed.

Rear drivers-side compartment has port for passing power cord and tv cable. If there was a 12-volt outlet in this compartment, a cord could be passed through the port to operate computer, portable dish, etc. from outside the coach.

[blw2]

Originally Posted by bclemens

We're ALWAYS trying to cut weight...but the consensus from customers is to add more, more more. We had 7 seatbelts but many didn't think that was enough. We'll continue to research materials to cut weight, but it's hard to cut back on features.

Yeah, valid points....
I'll bet though if you were to think outside the box a bit and get away from "norms" you'd proabbly be able to come up with some things that would save weight but not add cost or take away too much.... And focus on the target consumer.... Are these meant for full timers or for short weekend 'camping' trips?

Just as an example.... and granted I haven't totally thought this one through, but look at all the "wood" cabinets.....
I can understand that in larger coaches used by full timers, folks would want an at-home feel and the warmth of wood.... But these types of floor plans aren't really used I would think for full time living..... Aren't they intended more for camping trips?
MDF or partical board can be heavy. How much weight could be saved with alternate materials? Open shelves instead of cabinet doors?
Maybe not every cabinet, but in select locations anyway....

Another idea..... try one TV instead of three or four. Not only the weight of the TV's but the wiring, switch gear, etc.... Again, 'camping', not full time living....

Maybe I'm not normal..... and this is just the voice of one ....

[bclemens]

We try to accommodate all users. We have full timers in Sunseekers and weekend campers and more. As for TV's they are optional. Seems like we put one and everyone options all (3).

[ATVer]

Have a 2012 3120.

Most issues I already fixed. Some may be considered personal preference. They add little or no weight.

Radio is powered from the chassis battery and there is no standard remote; Added about 6' of wire and SPDT switch to select coach battery when parked and bought factory remote from radio manufacturer for $10. I believe this is resolved if you spend a few hundred $ for the optional radio in 2013.

Front passenger seat room is extremely restricted by couch position up against the back of it; For a few $ in materials I constructed a slide mechanism to slide and lock the couch back about a foot so the front seat can be slid back and reclined fully when traveling. Moved the fire extinguisher under the sink but could be mounted on the wall next to the door if code requires. Access thru the coach door is cramped but still can be done easily. Even if it the couch was only slid 6", the front seat room would be greatly enhanced.

Engine cover cup holder/storage unit restricts going between cab and coach; Ford has other cupholder/storage units that still have cup holders and storage but are smaller and open up the access. Replaced with one of these.

Black water tank flush is located on the passenger side and inconvenient; Relocated into the hatch area with the sewer connections for the cost of about 8' of plastic pipe and some fittings.

Front slide should be deeper to add more open living space; This would add some weight but worth it. To make this modification to a built unit was too major for me to justify doing.

Carpeted box area to the left of the bed is much larger than needed to cover the pipes and wires that go from under the bed to the rest of the coach. It inhibits reaching the top of the bed when making it. I shortened it up about 10" which my wife says makes a big difference. No cost except time to cut it shorter rework the carpet.

There is no pressure fill for the fresh water tank only an open gravity hose fill; Used two fittings, 12" of pipe and a valve to install a pressure fill option from the city water hookup. The valve is accessible through the water filter access door.

The Water Filter was bypassed when hooked up to city water. For some reason it was only in the flow path when using the on board pump and tank; Rerouted city water supply line from the filter outlet to the inlet side for the cost of a few inches of pipe and 2 fittings.

Bed access on the right is tight; Why not put the 3120 on the same chassis length as the 3010 and 3170 and add an extra 4 inches to the bedroom.

Bedroom TV is mounted such that it sticks out into the aisle at the rear of the bed when stowed; Relocated the mounting point of the swing mount about 4" back. TV is now out of the aisle and still does not interfere with the shade or window operation.

Front TV mount does not have any vertical or pivot adjustment so you are always looking up at it on an angle. Installed a wobble plate mount so the TV screen can be aligned properly.

Just my thoughts.

[bclemens]

Some of these we have done or are working on...a few more I will certainly bring up in our product meeting. Everyone does everything just a little different, but these seem to make sense in a very broad way.

[Jayhawk]

Bclemens,
thanks for the opportunity to provide comments to the production line design process. And I know with any business, cost is the bottom line. However, best value is not the lowest cost. We are a two coach family, I use our Travel Supreme for Highway traveling and the Sunseeker for fishing and ATV fun. The floor plan of the 2250 LE is one of the best with little comprise for a small Class C. And to tell you the truth, I will be using the 2250 LT more then the Travel Supreme. The 2250 LE with the Chevy 4500 Express is the perfect combination. I was averaging 12-13 MPH on a 1,500 mile road trip, on regular gas. Now, for what I’m changing or have already changed.

1. Drawer slides and latches in the kitchen. Went to Lowes and installed replacement. Drawers and hardware were fine it was the installation process that needs to be reviewed. Problem was the plastic drawer glide was installed way off center to where the floating drawer could not compensate. Easy fix during production.
2. Solid surface counter tops with flush mounted sinks, to include a drop in cook top with solid surface cover.
3. Shorten the table by 2-3 inches on the aisle side. Would make it easier to reach overhead cabinets.
4. Solid surface table top and remove the cup holders.
5. Met a fellow Sunseeker on the road and he was having a problem with A/C fun running when the furnace turned on. Showed him the AUTO fan setting on the thermostat. FR is one of the better manufactures in providing operating instructing but lacks in this area. Easy fix.
6. Bed storage when traveling. I purchased 4 gas strut bracket’s and mounted two of the brackets to the fold up portion of the bed and two to the fixed portion and used bungee cord. Works great until I can think of a different approach.
7. The fresh water drain is a problem. Removed the wood panel from inside of the storage bay and added a RV access panel to wood panel and re-installed. Works great and an easy fix. Also used a bulkhead grommet on the 30 amp power cord as it goes through the wood panel. This area could use a little more review.
8. Good selection on the water pump. However, need to isolate it a little better. Very load when in use.
9. Need to have an option for an Onan generator. They are quite and easy to get serviced.
10. Running board in the Chevy express.
11. 3M masking on the front of the coach next to the doors.
12. A swivel passenger seat would be nice.

Again thanks for the opportunity

Gary

[FEZ]

I would like to echo ATVer's comment about the front tv mount. If you come up with a new mount to address that issue, I would be interested in purchasing the new mount. Thanks!

[gerrym51]

Mr. Clemens,

just because i'm nosy-what sunseeker floorplan is the biggest seller-if not a trade secret.


thanks

[ATVer]

Originally Posted by FEZ

I would like to echo ATVer's comment about the front tv mount. If you come up with a new mount to address that issue, I would be interested in purchasing the new mount. Thanks!

The mount I used was a Rocketfish Low-Profile Tilting Wall Mount that I added between the tv and the swing mount arm.


It sells on Amazon for about $22.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by FEZ

I would like to echo ATVer's comment about the front tv mount. If you come up with a new mount to address that issue, I would be interested in purchasing the new mount. Thanks!

Funny you mention that. I just looked at a new proto-type mount yesterday that eliminate that issue. It was very random...I just happen to be walking through engineering when one of the engineers said "hey, look at this" I'll keep my eyes open for when they go into full production. He mentioned that it doesn't stick into the hallway. It's also a "2 stage" or double arm as well.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Mr. Clemens,

just because i'm nosy-what sunseeker floorplan is the biggest seller-if not a trade secret.
thanks

Well, I don't have national numbers, but I do know the top floor plans in my territory (Colorado North and West to Alaska). We try to make each floor plan have a unique feature that makes them attractive to a certain buyer. It seems to work pretty well. The top (3) are within a few percentage points...
3010, 2860, 2250

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by ATVer

Have a 2012 3120.

Most issues I already fixed. Some may be considered personal preference. They add little or no weight.

Radio is powered from the chassis battery and there is no standard remote; Added about 6' of wire and SPDT switch to select coach battery when parked and bought factory remote from radio manufacturer for $10. I believe this is resolved if you spend a few hundred $ for the optional radio in 2013. New standard radio is done this way

Front passenger seat room is extremely restricted by couch position up against the back of it; For a few $ in materials I constructed a slide mechanism to slide and lock the couch back about a foot so the front seat can be slid back and reclined fully when traveling. Moved the fire extinguisher under the sink but could be mounted on the wall next to the door if code requires. Access thru the coach door is cramped but still can be done easily. Even if it the couch was only slid 6", the front seat room would be greatly enhanced. Good idea but not sure how this affects our seatbelt testing. Maybe we can come up with something

Engine cover cup holder/storage unit restricts going between cab and coach; Ford has other cupholder/storage units that still have cup holders and storage but are smaller and open up the access. Replaced with one of these.I'd be curious what you used. I've seen aftermarket ones but I have never seen one available from Ford. I have even asked about what option code it would be when we order out chassis

Black water tank flush is located on the passenger side and inconvenient; Relocated into the hatch area with the sewer connections for the cost of about 8' of plastic pipe and some fittings. This will vary by floor plan...but does make sense to route it to driver side

Front slide should be deeper to add more open living space; This would add some weight but worth it. To make this modification to a built unit was too major for me to justify doing. Deeper slides require additional testing. We try and use a deep slide on every new floor plan...and then we try and go back and modify existing floor plans

Carpeted box area to the left of the bed is much larger than needed to cover the pipes and wires that go from under the bed to the rest of the coach. It inhibits reaching the top of the bed when making it. I shortened it up about 10" which my wife says makes a big difference. No cost except time to cut it shorter rework the carpet. I have complained about this on all floor plans

There is no pressure fill for the fresh water tank only an open gravity hose fill; Used two fittings, 12" of pipe and a valve to install a pressure fill option from the city water hookup. The valve is accessible through the water filter access door. We used to use pressure only. After many complaints we went to gravity fill. I guess both would be the best solution

The Water Filter was bypassed when hooked up to city water. For some reason it was only in the flow path when using the on board pump and tank; Rerouted city water supply line from the filter outlet to the inlet side for the cost of a few inches of pipe and 2 fittings.

Bed access on the right is tight; Why not put the 3120 on the same chassis length as the 3010 and 3170 and add an extra 4 inches to the bedroom.

Bedroom TV is mounted such that it sticks out into the aisle at the rear of the bed when stowed; Relocated the mounting point of the swing mount about 4" back. TV is now out of the aisle and still does not interfere with the shade or window operation. proto-type in the works

Front TV mount does not have any vertical or pivot adjustment so you are always looking up at it on an angle. Installed a wobble plate mount so the TV screen can be aligned properly. New TV's have a "space plate" that adds and angle to the TV

Just my thoughts.

Greatly apprectiated

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk

Bclemens,
thanks for the opportunity to provide comments to the production line design process. And I know with any business, cost is the bottom line. However, best value is not the lowest cost. We are a two coach family, I use our Travel Supreme for Highway traveling and the Sunseeker for fishing and ATV fun. The floor plan of the 2250 LE is one of the best with little comprise for a small Class C. And to tell you the truth, I will be using the 2250 LT more then the Travel Supreme. The 2250 LE with the Chevy 4500 Express is the perfect combination. I was averaging 12-13 MPH on a 1,500 mile road trip, on regular gas. Now, for what I’m changing or have already changed.

1. Drawer slides and latches in the kitchen. Went to Lowes and installed replacement. Drawers and hardware were fine it was the installation process that needs to be reviewed. Problem was the plastic drawer glide was installed way off center to where the floating drawer could not compensate. Easy fix during production. We have gone back to our normal ball bearing extension
2. Solid surface counter tops with flush mounted sinks, to include a drop in cook top with solid surface cover. This is a cost/weight consideration. Optional wouldn't be bad though
3. Shorten the table by 2-3 inches on the aisle side. Would make it easier to reach overhead cabinets.
4. Solid surface table top and remove the cup holders. Again, cost/weight. We have discussed that this floor plan is not just a great "entry level" floor plan, but a great floor plan. Others (not just first time buyers) might find it attractive and may want more features.
5. Met a fellow Sunseeker on the road and he was having a problem with A/C fun running when the furnace turned on. Showed him the AUTO fan setting on the thermostat. FR is one of the better manufactures in providing operating instructing but lacks in this area. Easy fix.
6. Bed storage when traveling. I purchased 4 gas strut bracket’s and mounted two of the brackets to the fold up portion of the bed and two to the fixed portion and used bungee cord. Works great until I can think of a different approach. We have redesigned this area
7. The fresh water drain is a problem. Removed the wood panel from inside of the storage bay and added a RV access panel to wood panel and re-installed. Works great and an easy fix. Also used a bulkhead grommet on the 30 amp power cord as it goes through the wood panel. This area could use a little more review.
8. Good selection on the water pump. However, need to isolate it a little better. Very load when in use. I mentioned this to engineering
9. Need to have an option for an Onan generator. They are quite and easy to get serviced. We have always had an option for Onan....pretty soon Onan will be standard.
10. Running board in the Chevy express. Available
11. 3M masking on the front of the coach next to the doors.
12. A swivel passenger seat would be nice. We have tested this, but suppliers want a larger commitment that we're ready to give.

Again thanks for the opportunity

Gary

Thanks for the feedback.

[paulmlac]

BCLEMENS - First a question & then another suggestion for the next Sunseeker...

We bought a new 3100. We really liked the floorplan (wife hated the U dinette in the 3010 as the table was smaller, I liked it for the bigger bed space, guess who won?!?!?!), storage (we both liked the 2860 aside from the smaller kitchen counter space but the outside kitchen killed the outside storage), & CCC (only 1 slide helps there). But it's not one of the bigger sellers based what you said & what we saw in inventory at dealers. Based on your comment above that you try to have a unique feature in each floorplan to makes it unique to a certain buyer, just being nosy also, but what is the unique feature in a 3100? We know it's a mature floorplan, hoping it doesn't get discontinued too soon down the road, & that there's a resale market down the road.

Now for the suggestion. This should add maybe pennies to each unit for some extra sewing time. The curtain that covers the cab needs to have a cut out at the bottom center. This would be to have visibility to the cab radio while parked. You can't see the radio station & I am assuming (but haven't tried it yet) that the remote won't work through the curtain. As the curtain is now, you need to either hike it up on the dashboard or my wife will probably add a cut out & seam.

[bclemens]

The 3100 is what I would consider a Legacy floor plan. I has been around for a long time and will always do well since it is tried and true. That was one of the first ones we tweaked with the heated, enclosed tanks and taking it to 129 cubic feet of storage (there is the feature). Also by only having one slide you can maximize usage of that storage. Everyone asks for more CCC...but our double slide floor plans continue to be the best sellers.

As for the radio, we have tested the remote through the curtain (one of the first things we did) and the remote did work. Valid suggestion though to be able to see the screen. I'll pass that on. The ONLY thing I would be concerned about, is some people when they camp in colder weather, don't run the curtain AROUND the cab...they just go straight across the "wing walls"...that cutout may pose an issue for that usage.

[gerrym51]

Mr. clemens ,

i asked you this about another model-but.

can the 2250 dinette be exchanged for a couch.

also-the 2250 has no standard spare tire. can you get one and where would you
attach it. can it go underfloor like other sunseekers

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Mr. clemens ,

i asked you this about another model-but.

can the 2250 dinette be exchanged for a couch.
Somehow an order like that got in the system...so it wasn't, but after this week it will be (barring any issues)

also-the 2250 has no standard spare tire. can you get one and where would you
attach it. can it go underfloor like other sunseekers

Yes you can get a spare. There is no room under, so it would be a rear wall mount.