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06-10-2015, 08:05 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 149
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K&N air cleaner assy
Does this really help the V10 E450? Increase power, or just noise? Better fuel economy? Any check engine alarms?
Feedback please Thanks Larry
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06-10-2015, 08:45 AM
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#2
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Tinkerer and Putterer
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 398
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A K&N air filter swap bought me 0.1 - 0.2 mpg improvement so not statistically important. You can get the same improvement by replacing a dirty air filter with a clean one. If the intake you're looking at is a sealed unit and still pulls air from outside the engine bay and doesn't use metal tubes that heat soak then the intake won't do any harm but if this is one of those filters on a stick that suck air from the engine bay then sucking in the hot air will actually hurt performance.
Custom intakes typically only help in situations where large air volumes are needed and the stock intake and filter are not up to the task. Think turbo or supercharger. Our rigs don't typically run more than 4500 rpms so they don't approach the air volumes that would be required for one of these boxes to make a big difference. You can pick up some additional air flow by installing a free flowing air filter but be warned that there are folks out there that have seen issues with the fluid from an excessively oiled lifetime filter fouling the sensors in the throttle body so if you're worried about that then best to stick with swapping out your stock air filter every 10 - 15K miles or once every few years.
I have seen these boxes swapped in on 600+ hp race motors with large cooling fans blowing into the intake and the net change on the dyno was only a few horsepower above 5000 RPM. To feel a difference from a modification you typically need to see a gain of 20 hp or more from the change. On the open road the force of the air coming into the intake might exceed the force of a dyno fan but I doubt it would be enough to make a difference on one of these V10s.
One thing you will notice if you do swap the intake is more intake noise. Many folks hear that and believe they are making more power. In reality all that has happened is the resonator on the stock intake is gone resulting in more noise.
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06-10-2015, 08:58 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oswego il
Posts: 2,428
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I would not put a K&N device on anything not even a fred! Oh I see that you have a fred but I still would not put it on.
Cummins engines would void your engine warranty at one time if a K&N device was found on the engine. They are the cheapest manufacture in the market place today and they make very poor quality sub-par products. But they do spend an awful lot on advertising.
Just my $0.02
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Jim W.
2016 34RL CC; 2008 Ram Mega Cab 2500HD, 6.7L, 68RFE 6 speed, 4X4, Smarty S67, TDR 145K+miles
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06-10-2015, 09:38 AM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 54
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I just swapped out the original air filter with a K&N and was truly surprised by the difference. I have to put my scangauge back on to get real numbers, but I am sure I am getting more than .2 mpg. I also noticed a difference in the power. I am basing this on trips to one of the parks in the mountains. It's only about 60 miles away but has some steep grades. We have made this trip many times before and have kept records. I usually get about 6.5 mpg on the way up and 8 on the way back. I expected to fill up on the way back using the gas discount points we accumulated, but I was still at half a tank and had to wait till this past weekend to fully use the 30 gal max. There is also a 5 mile grade that I usually run over 3000 rpm @ 55 mph. Passing another truck was never an option before, but this time I found I was running about 2800 rpm and when I came up on a slow mover, I was able to easily pass them. We made the same trip this past weekend and had comparable results. I can't think of anything that changed other than the filter, so I am going to attribute the difference to it. As far as the oil fouling the sensors, I have had a K&N in our Acadia for 3 years and have never had an issue.
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Bob and Joy
2013 Sunseeker 3010DS
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06-10-2015, 12:19 PM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
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k n filter
Have used in all my vehicles for years and no problem.
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06-10-2015, 12:44 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: oakdale, ca
Posts: 292
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The big problem that people do with a k/n filter is over oiling it between cleanings. A cleaner kit should do at least 4 or 5 cleanings and you only put a thin coating of oil on them. Other wise they will cause the sensors to get oil on them and cause problems. But if you also between cleanings spray the air sensor with sensor cleaner these filters will improve milage and performance.
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06-10-2015, 01:17 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: In a big child free home - except for me
Posts: 1,682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim34RL
I would not put a K&N device on anything not even a fred! Oh I see that you have a fred but I still would not put it on.
Cummins engines would void your engine warranty at one time if a K&N device was found on the engine. They are the cheapest manufacture in the market place today and they make very poor quality sub-par products. But they do spend an awful lot on advertising.
Just my $0.02
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The Moss agreement in the states overrides the manufacturer canceling out your warranty where as the manufacturer doesnt supply free air filters.
I currently have used an ARRIAD air filter system and performance exhast on our F150 for better torque. lightly oiled has no effect on sensors and dealer has seen it on both my 2011 and 2013 Ecoboosts.
they did however blame me for electrical issues with battery saver mode reoccuring and the wiring for my LED lights in the grille were not even attached.
we have a K and N filter in our car and increased mileage by 10%
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TV 2018 Ford F250, hauling a 2018 KZ 331 TH 12 Sportster 5th wheel, packing a 2015 CF MOTO 800 U-Force SXS
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06-10-2015, 01:26 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,188
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KN filters improve mileage by allowing more air to enter the engine. To me, that means the filter is allowing larger particles thru it than the stock air filter. Larger particles of dust, dirt, etc. I'll stay with the factory filter. Am I wrong?
Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums
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Tom & Renée
Durham, NC
2021 Jayco Class C model 27U
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06-10-2015, 01:36 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Oswego, NY
Posts: 293
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K&N test results
Attached is a test from a few years ago. Although the info is somewhat dated, if it were easy to prove the claims made by aftermarket air intakes why can't those test results be published/found? If it were that easy to make more power, why wouldn't the factories do it?
If anybody disagrees with this study, please provide unbiased test results to prove it wrong.
K&N Air Filter Review - Debunking the Myths (and why OEM is better)
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2015 Rockwood Ultra Lite 2604 WS. Rear LR, large street side slide with small wardrobe slide in BR.
2014 Ram 1500 Eco Diesel Laramie Quad Cab.
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06-10-2015, 02:45 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: oakdale, ca
Posts: 292
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GM is doing it now. They have brought out there own cold air intake system that you can have installed at the dealership. My old truck was bought with the k/n system installed by the dealership so the argument of the manufactures not getting on board is old school and the argument of it affecting your warranty is also. its your own opinion weather to use or not.
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06-10-2015, 04:54 PM
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#11
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Tinkerer and Putterer
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 398
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I applaud those folks for running that filter test. It shows a possible why the manufacturers choose to continue using paper filters instead of switching to oiled filters. Well that and the fact that most users will not clean a filter... To play devils advocate I went looking for the best article arguing for an aftermarket air intake:
Dyno Test: 4 K&N vs. AEM 5th Gen Camaro Intake Options - LSXTV
You can see the affect of heat soak on the intake with the large aluminum pipe.
The camaro in question has exhaust manifolds that can support 500+ hp, and it seems to have a smaller stock air filter and a intake tube and as a result there were some impressive performance gains on the dyno using these perfectly clean filters. Even with this ideal setup please note the RPMs where the numbers start to pick up. You don't see the toted improvement until the engine exceeds 5000 RPMs, a level that most RVs will never see unless they are running the Chevy 6.0L. There is some improvement down around 3000 and 4000 RPM but not enough to feel the difference. On our rigs that are limited by the restrictive exhaust manifolds I question whether or not the observed improvement would be this dramatic. You can only move as much air as the pump allows and when you have a restrictive exhaust that will also limit the amount of air the engine can pull in. All of these things are connected so changing just one item will often not have as big of an affect as expected thanks to a bottleneck somewhere else in the pipe. To take full advantage of a performance intake you would want to swap the exhaust manifolds for headers and remap the computer to take advantage of the improved volumetric efficiency. Then you will see a marked improvement. However you will also see a pretty good dent in your wallet as well. This is the approach that Banks takes with its power pack and that bad boy will set you back 2000+!
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06-10-2015, 05:13 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange Texas
Posts: 790
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Quote:
The Moss agreement in the states overrides the manufacturer canceling out your warranty where as the manufacturer doesnt supply free air filters.
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In would hate to have to challenge the auto makers over a filter. Not worth the effort to me. I wouldn't use it. That being said, I am a believer that the manufacturer knows best and I stick with OEM filters.
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2013 Crusader 330 MKS
2013 Chevrolet Silverado LT 2500 D/A
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06-10-2015, 06:16 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange Texas
Posts: 790
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OOPS_Double post
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2013 Crusader 330 MKS
2013 Chevrolet Silverado LT 2500 D/A
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06-10-2015, 06:49 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 299
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My preference is OEM unless you have a race car
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06-10-2015, 09:37 PM
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#15
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Left Coast
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: vancouver,washington
Posts: 15,649
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Dyno tests are done in an enclosed area.....and not in real situations.....Been around this for 55 years and just because it's in print, doesn't make it so.....believe every thing that's in a newspaper? I could real technical here, but I don't like to type that much.
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06-10-2015, 09:40 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 194
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Was getting @ 10-11 mpg towing with a 2010 Tundra. On a friend's advice I put in a K & N air filter and it dropped to 6-7 mpg. I thought about this and the only difference since my last trip was the K & N filter. Went to a parts store and bought a standard air filter and it went back to 10-11 mpg! Took it back where I bought it and got a full refund. Don't try it.
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VMI'62
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06-10-2015, 09:54 PM
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#17
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Left Coast
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: vancouver,washington
Posts: 15,649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund
Was getting @ 10-11 mpg towing with a 2010 Tundra. On a friend's advice I put in a K & N air filter and it dropped to 6-7 mpg. I thought about this and the only difference since my last trip was the K & N filter. Went to a parts store and bought a standard air filter and it went back to 10-11 mpg! Took it back where I bought it and got a full refund. Don't try it.
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What you did was throw a/f ratio off and computor richened the system because of the oxygen sensor
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06-10-2015, 09:57 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob caldwell
What you did was throw a/f ratio off and computor richened the system because of the oxygen sensor
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Whatever I did screwed things up. Using standard filters everything is fine.
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VMI'62
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06-10-2015, 10:01 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Southern New England
Posts: 862
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I installed the K&N FIPK on my Durango. I also did a 3" cat back exhaust with a 2 chamber muffler and Hy-pertech re-programmer (set for 89 octane). Yes without the exhaust and intake resonators it is pretty loud. Teenage son (who wears earbuds 24x7) complained when sitting in the 3rd row. Only a 2mpg daily driver increase. But, the grey grocery getter is now the silver streak.
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2017 GMC Yukon
2018 Roo 23 ikss
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06-15-2015, 07:25 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 1,222
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K&N and Dust
I purchased on for my 05 Jeep Liberty diesel. The instructions said it wasn't suitable for dusty conditions. I live in NM, where it is always dusty. I never installed it.
I drove through a dust storm once that was so bad the check engine light came on. Had to stop and shake out the stock filter. Hard to do with an oil bath. That said, the sweet little Honda 2000 generator uses an oil bath in horrible conditions at Lake Powell, and runs like a champ.
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